Adding Atmos speakers? (1 Viewer)

[John Dirk]

Is there any reason you can't attach surround speakers like that to the ceiling, instead of the wall? I expect it can be done.

Good point. I guess I could but it would impede my view of my screen and SVS sells them with this mounting solution in mind. Is it sub optimal. If so, why?

 

[JohnRice]

Good point. I guess I could but it would impede my view of my screen and SVS sells them with this mounting solution in mind. Is it sub optimal. If so, why?

They won't impede your view of the screen. They'd be over your head, nowhere near sight line to the screen. It is sub optimal because Atmos speakers are supposed to be over your head, not high and to the sides.

 

[John Dirk]

They won't impede your view of the screen. They'd be over your head, nowhere near sight line to the screen.

How's that? See [admittedly poor] pic. My screen almost touches the ceiling.

It is sub optimal because Atmos speakers are supposed to be over your head, not high and to the sides.

This makes perfect sense to me but I bought these speakers based on this content from SVS, a company I've always trusted.

https://www.svsound.com/pages/prime-elevation

 

[JohnRice]

That page you linked is arguing that the placement they show is better then reflecting Atmos speakers, because how reflections come through is unpredictable. OK, that might be. It certainly will be more predictable. but Atmos speakers are supposed to be overhead, as in, not up and to the sides, but over your head. Sit at your viewing position and look up to about 11:00, where 12:00 would be looking straight up at the ceiling. That is where they are supposed to be. That will not block you view of the screen. There is no way it could. It's over your head.

Regarding SVS, it's not the company it used to be. If you'd like me to detail my personal involvement with that company, I can give more detail.

Here's a hint. Go to This Search for your subwoofer, and look at those first photos that are on clean, white backdrops and look like official product photos. That's the exact subwoofer that's sitting in my HT at this very moment. I took the photos, plus all the official product photos SVS had done their first few years in business. I took some of them in Ron Stimpson's (the first "s" in SVS) living room, then set up a studio in his garage for more. The PB12-Plus/2 pics, and others, came some time later.

 

[Luke Cool]

Is there any reason you can't attach surround speakers like that to the ceiling, instead of the wall? I expect it can be done.

As research, I was looking at Ceiling speakers. Some of them look like regular shelf speakers. I can't see any problem with your suggestion, It's a great idea. In fact, he can even mount his SVS speakers IN the ceiling. They're probably better quality than most Ceiling speakers you can buy. I own a SVS PB2000, it's a fantastic sub.

 

[John Dirk]

That page you linked is arguing that the placement they show is better then reflecting Atmos speakers, because how reflections come through is unpredictable. OK, that might be. It certainly will be more predictable. but Atmos speakers are supposed to be overhead, as in, not up and to the sides, but over your head. Sit at your viewing position and look up to about 11:00, where 12:00 would be looking straight up at the ceiling. That is where they are supposed to be. That will not block you view of the screen. There is no way it could. It's over your head.

Thanks! I am going to do some experimenting and report back. To be honest, your explanation makes more sense.

 

[Luke Cool]

https://www.svsound.com/products/prime-elevation
"SVS Prime Elevation speakers play any role in a home theater surround sound system amazingly well. Designed to easily mount directly to the wall or ceiling with the Multi-Purpose Wall Bracket (patent pending), the SVS Prime Elevation can be used as a direct-radiating height effects speaker for immersive object-based audio formats such as Dolby Atmos®, DTS:X® and Auro-3D®."

I can tell by the atmosphere around here that if a system isn't exactly like an engineer describes, all of you believe that any differences will make it impossible for it to live up to the engineer's expectations. I unsuccessfully tried to convince some of you that this is not true. But I can understands a purist's point of view; nothing short of the engineer's narrow view is truly Atmos®.

When I first heard the sound that comes from each speaker, I noticed that height sounds, like a jet flying over, started or finished from the Atmos to the rear speakers. The shorter the distance between them, the less noticeable the Passover was. For this reason, I valued the separation. I thought, the farther the speakers are apart, the more pronounced the Passover would be. So I mounted the Atmos set high on the wall over my TV, then the back ones at the same height in the back of the room (22 feet apart). This logic is not flawed, the system reacted the way I expected. Passovers and other height effects are extremely noticeable.

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/downloads/2/9/6/2/9/Manual_TX-RZ810_BAS_En.pdf
In my receiver's owner manual on page 5, it shows my set up as an Atmos system configuration. Onkyo and SVS are not the only manufacturers to do this. At this point, it's more than just my opinion. If movie makers know that ceiling mounted systems are not as popular, which system do you think they will make their productions to fit best? I'm not saying your way is wrong. What I am saying is, in a world where there are renters, wives, and cathedral ceilings, versatility is the key to selling more equipment to the masses. It would not be wise to create a technology that would only benefit such a small number of users.

 

[Sam Posten]

I can tell by the atmosphere around here that if a system isn't exactly like an engineer describes, all of you believe that any differences will make it impossible for it to live up to the engineer's expectations. I unsuccessfully tried to convince some of you that this is not true. But I can understands a purist's point of view; nothing short of the engineer's narrow view is truly Atmos®.

Jeez dude nothing could be further from the truth. What we’ve said is that if it works for you and you are happy with it, great! You do you. But recommending your alternatives over the recommended setups is bad form.

Many of us have used ‘make it work” solutions. My own rooms have doglegs in them and open walls. We make the setup work in them. I’d never recommend them tho

Atmos is designed to come from direct radiators or bounces from overhead. You can certainly deviate. But convincing people to do it your way against the recommended path they are going down? No.

 

[Luke Cool]

Jeez dude nothing could be further from the truth. What we’ve said is that if it works for you and you are happy with it, great! You do you. But recommending your alternatives over the recommended setups is bad form.

Many of us recommend ‘make it work” solutions. My own rooms have doglegs in them and open walls. We make the setup work in them. I’d never recommend them tho

Atmos is designed to come from direct radiators or bounces from overhead. You can certainly deviate. But convincing people to do it your way against the recommended path they are going down? No.

Sam;
You completely missed the point of the post, please reread it. It's SVS's and Onkyo's way also. If you wish, I will look through more manuals and give you a long list of manufacturers that recommending this setup. It's not just my recommendation, it's the people that make your equipment. I showed you this in an "SVS Prime Elevation" speaker's advertisement, and an Onkyo receiver owner's manual. These are two companies that are every bit as reputable as Dolby Labs. How can it be "bad form" to recommended a setup suggested by several manufacturers?

 

[Sam Posten]

I’m referring to this post:
https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/posts/4575697/

Telling people not to use ceiling speakers is your opinion at best and, from most perspectives pretty crazy. They are a key delivery format for Atmos. That others recommend their own products instead is irrelevant. Direct radiating speakers work perfectly fine and have none of the safety issues your later posts posited.

 

[Sam Posten]

Also, again I’m not convinced you understand the entire point of object based sound. If you did you’d recognize that ceiling positioning is key to getting the most from those formats.

See the video here:
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/brands/dolby-atmos.html

And setup guides here:
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/dolby-atmos-speaker-setup/index.html

 

[Luke Cool]

Telling people not to use ceiling speakers is your opinion at best and, from most perspectives pretty crazy. They are a key delivery format for Atmos. That others recommend their own products instead is irrelevant. Direct radiating speakers work perfectly fine and have none of the safety issues your later posts posited.

At this point, I agree with your first statement, I gave bad advice.
I now see some usefulness in a good ceiling installation.
Their quality has greatly improved since I last look at them.
Although I do not recall listing any safety issues. Installation issues, yes.
Poor placement, a substandard quality unit, and insufficient (to downright neglectful) area preparation.
You say "others recommend their own products".
In the Onkyo receiver manual example, your statement is not true.
If that was your only query, that positions my point as relevant.

Also, again I’m not convinced you understand the entire point of object based sound. If you did you’d recognize that ceiling positioning is key to getting the most from those formats.

You are correct. I cannot imagine a better out come than I have already achieved with my present system. But, in all honesty, I Have never seen a ceiling system done right. Please enlighten me, if you've heard both set ups, help me to understand the difference.

​

 

[Sam Posten]

I’ve got 2x 5.1.2 ceiling bounce setups in my house and a full blown 7.1.4 with direct radiating ceiling speakers in my basement. The difference is night and day. The bouncers give a cool subtle effect. The direct radiators allow me to track individual object sounds as they move through the space. I could point at them with a laser pointer. If ever in central MD pm me to get a demo! And also note this is in a dogleg room with a lot of necessary adjustments. It works

 

[John Dirk]

See the video here:
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/brands/dolby-atmos.html

I get no audio when viewing this with either Chrome or IE. I've heard Edge is required for Atmos playback. Guess it's true.

 

[Sam Posten]

Works just fine for me in Chrome.

 

[TonyD]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0148NPHO8/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_22?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I know these are built as a on top speaker but aside from figuring out how to attach it what about using this type of speaker as the on the ceiling down pointing speakers?

$100 for a pair is right in my wheelhouse.

I’m trying to not use on top speakers because I have a huge ceiling fan that pretty much eliminates that option.

 

[Sam Posten]

I have a ceiling fan in my ground floor family room with those exact bounce speakers. Works fine, other than the occasional fan noise. I personally wouldn't ceiling mount them but seem to recall others having done so to positive effect. Fixing the angles might be weird...

 

[John Dirk]

Works just fine for me in Chrome.

I expected audio in the opening scene with the orbiting satellites and there was none. When I scrolled down to the video clip I did hear audio but also saw this.

 

[John Dirk]

Regarding SVS, it's not the company it used to be. If you'd like me to detail my personal involvement with that company, I can give more detail.

Yes please.

 

[John Sparks]

I just installed 2 Polk v60s for my in-ceiling Atmos speakers. The grille is magnetized but doesn't stay on properly. I'm going to Velcro them on, but do I really need the grilles?