Adding a Seperate AMP ???

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Robbie R, Oct 7, 2004.

  1. Robbie R

    Robbie R Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have a few questions about adding a separate amp.

    My current set-up is:

    Rotel RSX-1065 Receiver (5X100)
    B&W 603S3 Fronts
    B&W LCR 700 Center
    B&W 601S3 Rears.


    I am considering these 2 options.
    1) Buying a used Bryston 3B-ST (2X120)for the mains only.
    2) Buying a New Rotel RMB-1066 (6X60) and bridging the amp to output 3 X 150.

    If I buy the Bryston used they should cost roughly the same amount of money.

    I really like the idea of the Bryston because it will sound great for stereo music, but I am worried about not having the same amplification up front for movies.

    This is why I am considering the Rotel RMB1066 bridged to 3X150. BUT.... are their any drawbacks do using an amp bridged?? will it affect the sound??? Can I set it up myself or does the dealer do it when you buy it. I don't have a clue how it works. (any advice on this would be greatly appreciated)


    What do you guys (and girls)[​IMG] think? Would you go with the Bryston or Rotel?? Or should I be looking at something else??

    I have about $1000.00 CAN$ to spend. My usage is 75%Movies & Gaming, 25%Music.


    Thanks Rob
     
  2. Brad_Harper

    Brad_Harper Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The bridging of amplifier outputs normally raises the THD levels. Often though the increase is not audible. Bridging an amp is very simple, you just hook the positive of one channel to the negative of the other channel. Once you add the new amp just recal the channels affected with the receivers test tones and enjoy.
    I would probably go with the bryston myself due to the warranty.
     
  3. Sam A

    Sam A Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2004
    Messages:
    149
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "I really like the idea of the Bryston because it will sound great for stereo music, but I am worried about not having the same amplification up front for movies" if everything is calibrated right, the volume levels will be the same.
     
  4. Travis

    Travis Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2003
    Messages:
    258
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If you're not opposed to purchasing used I would check out Audiogon. On the pre owned market you could get a Rotel 1075 for the same price as the 1066, which would give you 125 x 5, enough to easily drive most speakers to insane HT levels. JMTC
     
  5. mackie

    mackie Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Might be hard to do if you're set on buying used, but I strongly recommending trying the amp in your system before your purchase. You might just find that you can better use that money somewhere else in your system. Just my thoughts.
     
  6. Robbie R

    Robbie R Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks everyone.

    Brad
    I did not know using the amp bridged was that easy. I thought something had to be set inside the amp.

    Travis
    I am not opposed to buying used, (RMB-1075 is a great idea) but I only want to buy used equipment with a transferable warranty, just for my own protection. You don't have much recourse with a seller when you by used off the net. I am not sure if Rotels warranty is transferable? I will have to check my manual. I know Bryston has one of the best warranties available(20 years and fully transferable) Plus I live about 30 minutes from their factory.

    Mackie
    My brother has a Rotel RB-1070 (2X130), he is going to bring it to my house for an audition. If there is not a noticeable improvement, I might just lay off for now and wait until I can afford to step up to the next level. (5X200)But it is hard to compare apples to oranges when you don't have the equipment on hand, like a Bryston 3B-ST

    Thanks Again

    Rob
     
  7. MikeDuke

    MikeDuke Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2004
    Messages:
    248
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Just so you know, Bryston is conservative in their ratings for power. The 3b-ST really puts out 150 watts per channel. I have the 5b-ST, basically a 3b-ST with another channel and a 4b-ST. The 4b-ST is rated at 250X2 but it put out 300 per side.
     
  8. Kevin. W

    Kevin. W Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    1,534
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Robbie,

    I've had and used a Rotel RMB-1066 in my setup and had no problems running it bridged. THD, S/N etc do not change when going to bridged mode. Info I got from Rotel tech support. If your interested in a Bryston 3B checkout this link to Canuckaudiomart. Its in your price range.

    Bryston

    Kevin
     
  9. JohnSmith

    JohnSmith Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Rotel and Bryston are in totally different camps. One is low end seperates, other is upper end.

    You really don't want to bridge amps, it creates more problems than it solves. 120W will be plenty, far better than Rotel's 150W when bridged.
     
  10. mackie

    mackie Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2004
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Keep us posted on what direction you choose.
     
  11. Kevin. W

    Kevin. W Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    1,534
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0


    Thats some pretty strong words. Have you used either one? I've used a Rotel RMB-1095 in my setup and it certainly isn't built nor does it sound low end.

    Kevin
     
  12. Ed+S

    Ed+S Auditioning

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2003
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I agree that not all amps are created equally...I have already retired a Parasound HCA-2205A in favor of an Aragon 8008X5.

    Although the Parasound sounded nice, it could not compete with the Aragon.

    I have been beta testing PS Audio's new digital amp, GCA-250, and think it may be time to upgrade the Aragon, if I can swing the $6K MSRP for the GCMC 250 5 channel, 250 WPC amp.

    It is unbelievable how nice this new digital amp sounds. I would never have thought that I would consider getting one. I have not been impressed with other digital amps like the Carver, but the PA Audio amp is in a league of its own.


    Ed
     
  13. Eric Chong

    Eric Chong Extra

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2004
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Robbie,

    If you can spring for it get the Bryston SST series of amps instead of the ST amps. They are "better" but more expensive. I used to run a Rotel RSP-976 pre pro with Acurus power amps then moved to an Acurus Act-3 (improvement) and then to a Bryston SP 1.7 (another improvement) and then to all Bryston SST amps (another improvement). When I made the investment into the SST series of amps, my thought is that I will never need to upgrade my power amps again. I bought more power than needed to hedge any future speaker purchases.

    If I were you, I would try to get a hold of some "cheap" pro amps (Crown, Samson, QSC etc) just to hold you over until you upgrade again with true seperates.
     
  14. Levesque

    Levesque Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2002
    Messages:
    586
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I did own the Rotel RMB-1095 and now use a Bryston 4BSST and an Anthem Statement P5. And I did compare those amps in the same room in the same system.

    And I totally agree with JohnSmith. Rotel is definitely low-end, and Bryston and the Anthem Statement line are in a higher bracket for build quality and performance.

    My RMB-1095 was looking flimsy and fragile when sitting side-by-side with my P5. The build quality of those two 5 channels amps is definitely not the same. And I won't even start talking about sound quality and noise-floor.

    Robbie. The Bryston is a no-brainer over the Rotel. [​IMG]
     
  15. JohnSmith

    JohnSmith Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2003
    Messages:
    554
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I've used Rotel 991 & 991 poweramps. They're good affordable poweramps, but they're no where near the sound quality of other poweramps around. My other amps half the wattage have much higher sound quality- clearer detail & midrange, dead silent noise floor etc. Rotel also have a much higher noise floor, as the previous poster mentioned. The balanced input is not a true balanced input either! [​IMG]
     
  16. MichaelOD

    MichaelOD Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2003
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Interesting...

    I've listened to quite a bit of music as well as HT with Rotel product and have come away impressed.

    I've also heard QSC equipment being placed under the rigors of music and HT and have come away really impressed.

    My point? If Rotel is so low end but yields great value [price wise] and quality - how much better do you guys think QSC, Bryston and some of the others mentioned are; in relation to how much they cost?

    And what exactly do you guys consider low end separates in the apparent vein of Rotel? [which I personally think make fantastic product].

    Looking for examples. Thanks!
     
  17. Shiu

    Shiu Second Unit

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Messages:
    447
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Rotel amps are better looking, but I would go with Bryston for sound quality.
     
  18. Dave Milne

    Dave Milne Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2001
    Messages:
    568
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0


    NO, it is NOT that easy. In most amps, both speaker negative terminals are at ground potential. Connecting a jumper between any positive and any negative will be shorting out one channel or the other. Bad. [​IMG] Hooking the speaker across channel A positive to channel B negative is effectively the same is connecting it normally to channel A (since both negatives are the same).

    Bridging involves inverting the input polarity of one channel and connecting the speaker across the two positive terminals. Some amps will perform the input inversion with a switch (like Bryston and Adcom). With others you need to add an outboard circuit to invert the signal (a single op-amp will do).
     
  19. Eric Chong

    Eric Chong Extra

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2004
    Messages:
    18
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0


    There are obviously diminishing returns. The lower end stuff always seem to provide better value. Low end seperates is kind of like saying a low end Ferrari. Keep in mind that most of the manufacturers listed below have differnt "low end" and "high end" products within their respective product lines such as Krell. IMHO, and generally speaking I'll take a stab at your question for power amps only and not prepros:

    "low end" although I like the term entry level better
    Rotel
    Outlaw
    NAD
    Adcom

    Mid range
    ATI
    Sherborn (sp?)
    Anthem
    Aragon (the new stuff - the old I would put in high end)

    High End
    Bryston
    Krell
    Classe
    Halcro

    It also depends on how you define high end and low end. I include build quality, support etc in addition to performance.
     
  20. Brad_Harper

    Brad_Harper Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2001
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ok I guess I should have stated that the amplifier must be made for bridging in order to follow the instructions of my previous post. Most bridging amplifiers will automatically switch over to bridged mode once the correct two amplifier terminals are connected together. Trying to bridged a amp that was not designed for it could cause damage.
     

Share This Page