Add External Amp to Receiver?...Just Do It! (1 Viewer)

[Robert George]

Vishwa,
That's a tough call. I don't really like giving advice when it comes to someone else's money, especially this much money. I'll offer my opinion and you can take it for what you paid for it...
The differences between the 47 and the 49 have virtually nothing to do with the amps and power supply that I can tell. However, in the context of this discussion, specifically using the piece as a pre/pro, the differences between the two may well warrant considering the more expensive 49TX. The 49 has dual SHARC processors and the 47 has a single. That gives the 49 appreciably more processing power in the DSP section. There are some "audiophile" type upgrades in the form of more copper used in the chassis of the 49TX. I think the video format converter may be exclusive to the 49TX (?). If so, that is not an inconsequential feature.
Bottom line, I think the 49TX may well make a noticeably better pre/pro, but the 47TX will be nothing to sniff at.
Rajee:
Don't blame me for this crap, I've been reading about adding an amp to a receiver around here and at AVS forum for a while now. I just now decided to make the leap (of faith?). What can I say. Hearing is believing and I am now a believer. And you know how much I already liked the 49TX just as a receiver. I think it is an even better pre/pro with amplification for the surrounds thrown in as a bonus.

 

[RajeeK]

I think the video format converter may be exclusive to the 49TX (?). If so, that is not an inconsequential feature.

Yes, the 49TX exclusively has the video conversion feature and 9 bands of equalization vs 5 bands with the 47TX.

Obi,

Didn't want it to sound like I was blaming you. My bank account just can't afford any more stuff, so jealousy sets in. I just spoke to my wife and mentioned a new amplifier. She of course said NO. So the negotiations have just begun.

 

[Robert George]

She of course said NO. So the negotiations have just begun.

LOL!!

Only someone like me (and most of the guys around here) can appreciate the layers of truth in this statement.

 

[David Barteaux]

Robert,

A little off topic but how much of an improvement did the upgrade to the HTM-1 from HTM-2 make? I am thinking of upgrading my B&W LCR6S2 to the HTM-2. Should I hold out for the HTM-1. I'm using 604S2's up front and I do not plan on upgrading them yet.

 

[Jeffrey_Jones]

Robert - Nice setup. I will be adding amplification to my 898 as soon as budget allows.
Note - I know I should just ignore Aslam's comments but I can't
Aslam - Why would you post something with the sole purpose of creating conflict? Are you saying that we should all buy a 3801, cheap cables and a small TV? You may not see the value in higher end components but why do you feel the need to tell us that we shouldn't?

Yet I am proud to admit that I sent $1000 from my tax refund to Red Cross last week

I find that charity is most rewarding when I don't go around telling everyone about the good things that I’ve done.
Thanks,
Jeff

 

[BobRoulier]

Robert, Its funny because I have poking around here for a couple of months like a fly on the wall and its seems like the outlaw 950 is one of the only subjects that everyone focus on or cant seem to get away from! Im sure its a great piece for $ but you hardly hear anything about the 49tx and from what I understand its the pre/pro to own right now! I think true "separates guys" dont want to admit that a reciever/amp combo can perform just as well as a pre/pro/amp combo or maybe they feel like they crossed over into a better place and dont want to look back I have owned separates for 20 years now so I know the benefits over recievers but lets face it technology changes very fast these days so its hard to keep up. All I know is the 49tx is the way to go with an amp for me and thats all that matters to me
my gear:
mits hdtv 65819
pioneer elite 49tx(on its way)
parasound hca 2205(220x5)
sony ns7000progressive scan dvd player
paradigm studio 100s v2
studio cc
studio adp
jbl control 5 (rears for now)

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

"A little off topic but how much of an improvement did the upgrade to the HTM-1 from HTM-2 make? I am thinking of upgrading my B&W LCR6S2 to the HTM-2. Should I hold out for the HTM-1. I'm using 604S2's up front and I do not plan on upgrading them yet."

David has a great question, Obi. It looks like David's system is identical to mine and I'm curious about the same. The HTM-2 vs. the HTM-1. It's easier to start off at the center channel and work my way around the room...easier on the pocket book that is. I guess $2k is nothing to sneeze at (HTM-1).

Jeremy

 

[Vishwa Somayaji]

Thanks for the words of wisdom, Robert. I am extremely close to abandoning the outlaw wait list ship and get into one of the 47/49TX. In my mind I cannot come to a decision as to which one of the two. I knew about the video conversion but it is not important to me. I would not pay for the video conversion and the better remote--not that they aren't nice features--as I would not use either one. Enjoy your system.

 

[Frank_S]

Receiver/External amp=Improved performance in HT but the gap does'nt narrow as much in 2-channel performance. I listen to music more than movies these days mainly because I finally have a decent 2 channel setup.

I have all separates and have taken baby steps to get there all the while analyzing each component upgrade, do I need this component to get further improvement or stay put?.

To make a long story shorter, I now basically have 2 separate systems however they share the same main speakers(N804)and 2 ch. amp. Even my Classe pre/pro with Analog Bypass, which is a fine pre/pro, could'nt equal that of a dedicated 2 channel preamp(tube). I enjoy music more than I ever did with any receiver/external amp combo. As I said before, HT is a whole different story.

My current HT system:

Aragon 8008BB (Mains) Aragon 8008 x 3(center&surr)

Classe SSP-25 pre/pro Toshiba SD-5109 DVD

2-channel system:

Aragon 8008BB (Mains)

EAR 864 preamp(tube)

Rega P3 TT with Koetsu Black MC cart.

Cary CD-303 CD player

N804 speakers.

 

[Jeremy Hegna]

"Receiver/External amp=Improved performance in HT but the gap does'nt narrow as much in 2-channel performance."

Frank,

I must respectfully disagree with you on this statement. My 2 channel sound has improved almost more than HT with the addition of outboard amplification. I'm using 600 series B&Ws which in my opinion are much better for HT than music...see the Nautilus line.

"I listen to music more than movies these days mainly because I finally have a decent 2 channel setup."

Me too. And my pre/pro is a receiver that I would put up against any pre/pro, any day of the week, with matching speakers.

Jeremy

 

[jack x]

Gentlemen,

Would it be reasonable to suggest that in order to yield a significant improvement in sound quality that the receiver and the separate amp(s) should be in the same price range?

For example, assuming one used an $800-1000 amp, would it be expected that one would likely not obtain similar sound quality using a $400 (new) receiver vs. a $900 (new) receiver? Additionally,

1) if one were to use a $400 receiver, would an external 5 or 6 channel amp be recommended ?

2) if a $900 receiver were used, is it likely that a 2-channel external would be sufficient?

meaning - would it be suggested that the internal amps in the $400 receiver not be used at all, but with the $900 receiver, get a 2-channel amp and use the receivers internal amps for the 3-4 surround sound channels?

Thanks for your insight!!!!!!!

jack

 

[Robert George]

On the HTM1 vs. HTM2...
I will admit right up front and without shame that I don't think the HTM1 is worth double the price of the HTM2, but I get almost giddy when I fire up a great sounding movie soundtrack and listen to this incredible speaker. Call it what you will, but I think the price was worth it just so I know I have something that good.
That is not to say the HTM1 does not sound any different or any better than the HTM2. It does. Vocals have a perfectly natural timbre and seem to emanate from thin air. No coloration (that I can hear), no "boxiness", just smooth, highly detailed sound. Of course, the HTM2 is very nearly as good (let's not forget this "smaller" speaker lists for a cool kilobuck), though not quite as natural sounding in the lower midrange. The HTM1's lower frequency response seems to blend with the left and right mains more seamlessly. Indeed, where one could usually pick out the center channel with the HTM2, with the HTM1 dialed in with the 804s, it is like a very wide continuous soundfield extending across the entire width of my room. Really quite remarkable sounding.
Is there more than a little "snob appeal" at work here? Fuckin' aye, bubba. I'm not above that .
In all honesty, however, I would only recommend the HTM1 to someone with the disposable income to justify such a trivial purchase, after taking care of the Red Cross of course :rolleyes. The HTM2 is a fantastic speaker and would serve as a very capable anchor to almost any HT system. But mine would be bigger than your's....

 

[Ricky T]

Jack,

It's easier to discuss receiver/amp combos if you specific total dollars and which speakers.

 

[rodneyH]

Aslam, you must be very very careful, who said that they don't already donate $$ to charities?? I didn't hear him say that. plus anyone who makes $$ can decide what to do with it, on the Red Cross issue, I don't know if you are very informed about the current situation of what happened on 911 and the lack of funds that are getting to the victims, but I will say this, I do donate $ to a charity, but never again will it be the Red Cross (btw, the local Leader of the red cross "made" over $250,000 last year, how can he justify that??)

as for the findings, I agree, I have recently upgraded my Rotel amp to a true audiophile quality Marshsound design amp and use it with my Parasound pre/pro and B&W CDM7 (dreaming of your 804s) and the change was noticable, more so than I thought it would be!! btw, SACD would sound sweeeeeeet with your system, give it a try.

 

[rodneyH]

in regards to the HTM2 vs HTM1, the HTM1 is basically a 804 on its side, while the 2 is a 805, think of it that way, the 2 is a great speaker, while the 1 maybe as good as it gets (or very close to it). I wouldn't even think of getting the 1 unless you had the 804 or ABOVE (and even at that, I would still look seriously at teh 2, unless $ was ABSOLUTELY NO object). just my opinion.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Please, no more talk about the Red Cross or charities in this thread and let's talk about the discussion at hand. Thank you.
Crawdaddy

 

[ToddJoseph]

OBI,

Finally a voice of reason regarding this long standing issue!!!! Thank you for your up front and candid replies...

One question for you, will you be reviewing the anticipated Outlaw 755 200 X 5 amp? Just curious, because I would really like to know what you think abou this product...

 

[Jeff Engel]

Robert, where did you find the 49tx for $2400? I am waiting on the Rotel 1066 but with my dealer is having problems 'finding it'. So I might be thinking of getting something else and I like the Pioneer unit. I don't want to spend 4k on it but 2.4k I could get away with.

Jeff

 

[Robert George]

Jeff:
Check it, dude....Etronics
I have only dealt with them this one time, but they delivered on-time and the unit was double boxed. I sprang for overnight shipping ($110) as my experience is, the shorter time you let UPS have something, the less chance they will break it .
Todd:
I'd be pleased to do a write-up on the Outlaw 755 amp, or even the 770, if Outlaw wants to send me a review sample. I don't know any of the Outlaws, though, so I doubt it.

 

[RAF]

but you hardly hear anything about the 49tx and from what I understand its the pre/pro to own right now! I think true "separates guys" dont want to admit that a receiver/amp combo can perform just as well as a pre/pro/amp combo or maybe they feel like they crossed over into a better place and dont want to look back

BobR,
I, for one, as a "receiverist turned separatist" am willing to admit that lots of receivers have great pre-pro sections. However, I just don't want to keep spending the money over and over again for amps that I don't need or want. The best of both worlds would be if more companies offered the option of just buying the pre-pro section of their receivers instead of forcing you to pay a premium to purchase the amps as well. When I moved up from my Denon 5700 to a separate pre/pro it was mostly for the additional features (6.1, etc.) over my 5700. True, it sounded better than my 5700 but that was because there were 2+ years of advancement of the technology in play here.
My hope is that now that there are more pre/pros on the horizon that don't cost a king's ransom some of these companies, like Pioneer, etc. will see that there is a market for the pre/pro portion of their excellent receivers.
Having a great receiver and then adding some outboard amps to it (the topic of this thread) is, in my estimation, a great idea and I heartily endorse the sonic improvement that I found. The key is the next step after that. If you then go from one mega-receiver to another one, while retaining your amps you are paying for something you aren't going to use. Granted, some of the top receivers have some features I would like to see on the pre/pros, but it's unfortunate (or maybe by design?) that some companies won't offer to disaggregate the parts of the receiver at a lower price point.
Maybe this will all change one day.