Acoustic Research's TDS box / TDS-Technolgy fact or myth

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Geoff L, Oct 31, 2002.

  1. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Im sure this should bring forth some very interesting comments....
    Has anyone experimented with the Original Powered or Passive TDS box or the NEW, because of the selling of technology rights to Acoustic Reseach which now sells the newest TDS, the AR-TDS box.
    I've read some interesting thoughts on this technology and it's operation is far different than say BBE or other sonic sound inhancers. These all mess with the signal, are powered, and introduce problems in the sound from phase issues, to time dealy, and certainly noise.
    This is Passive Device, the AR-box, (non-powered) and said to do nothing to interfear with the sound signal in anyway like the others mentioned above.
    Curious if anyone has spent time with one on these in Stereo or Multipuls in a multi channel DD DTS systems. ~{I will try and find the Pro Reviews and other links to other stuff I read some time back while searching and researching this, and then come back & post links to them}~.....
    www.tdsaudio.com/news/tdsnews.asp
    http://www.resmagonline.com/2002/06/...ocontrol.shtml
    www.fsaudioweb.com/listen/tds.html
    Being I am from the old school of thought and thinking like most, nothing should be in line of the signal. Less is more in other words. Sound enhancers, EQ's, etc are frowned upon and if it's that bad, buy better equipment, room treatmets etc, is the general thought process.
    Though a parametric on a sub I will argue to my death --> *FOR IT*!
    Great, nothing wrong with that thinking IMO, BUT might this be something very different than the Normal Powered Sound Enhancer/Processors like BBE, DBX, and others, along with eq's, etc? It is said to be noiseless, dosn't add or subtract from the original sound, and dose not mess with delay or phase issues.
    TDS::::
    In short, is said to bring forth buried sound that is already their to begin with, that you now can hear...
    Fishing for your thoughts here and hopefully real testers or users...!
    I know some of you out their have heard of this Company and it's Original Powered TDS box. It eventualy became a passive unit, and TDS stands for (True Dimensional Sound). A deal of some sort was cut and the rights were sold to Acoustic Research and now, they AR, produce a small passive stylish TDS box. So anyone have thoughts and or experience with the Original Powered or Passive TDS, or the newer AR-TDS passive unit.....?
    Your take....
    Im listening
    Geoff
    Pro Reviews
    Scroll down and click on (Reviews), the reviews deal wih the Original Passive and Powered TDS units....
     
  2. Jonathan M

    Jonathan M Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    267
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  3. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    I figured that many might look to the snake oil, gizzo-mo, garbage, poppy-cock etc.

    This is why I was looking for people that might have actully used one of the units.

    Audio Review has 5 people who wrote 5 star reviews of the product, though it WAS the ~{*ORIGINAL* PASSIVE TDS UNIT}~ not the AR unit, and for some reason I can't get it to link. Not sure what it's under over their, possibly processors.

    But snake oil or not, if you checked the few links I was able to find, (many more of which I can't locate at this time) it has been used in & by ~ Motion Picture Audio Mixes, Radio Stations, CD mixing, and 5 movies includig U-571 used it in their soundtracks.

    Also on average a 2-3db gain in volume is noticed after hookup of the PASSIVE UNIT. -(eyebrow rasies)- Said to be from the extra audio it's able to bring forth thats hidden in the mix and not from boosting or amplifing frequencys.

    Yes sounds like snale oil but when some of the best industry pros with some of the best equipment to begin with give it a thumbs up and actually use it, dosn't this make one at least curious.....?

    The second link above trys to explain whats happening with the TDS and how our ears work.
    If one wants to right it off as poppy-cock, snank oil, etc, Im ok with that but to those that might say this I ask, have you actually used one?

    It sells for pretty much around 90 to 100.00 around the net and in stores, but Etronics sells it for 59.00 plus shipping.

    TDS is patented if that makes much differance to anyone. Still curious to hear from someone whom has actually used one. At 59.00 and a being able to return it, it is now certainly affordable as the first TDS Passive units cost 400.00.
    And I agree with Johanthan, I'd like to see what inside the magic box...

    Regards
    Geoff
     
  4. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am somewhat surprised that this little box has not brought forth some chatter from forum members.
    People certainly will discuss or argue their points on audio cabels, exotic/expensive and their gains percived or real, but this seems to be going un-noticed, if not even in a curiousty factor way.
    Members will pay 60.00 bucks for a cabel that may or may not provide you with some type of gain in your system wheather real or percived, but a product that seem to garner the intrests of pro audio people that actualy use it in their different fields of work, but it seems to be going un-noticed for discussion here...
    Really, I thought this would bring forth some ~{intrest & comments}~ for or againts it with reasoning for each hopefully, and at least some dialog!
    Others setting on the side just possibly being neutral with curiousty.
    Personaly:::
    I will say this much, I would rather spend the 60.00 dollars to see what this little box dose on one of my systems, good bad or other wise, before I'd put it into a 3-ft exotic audio cabel! [​IMG]
    Also I might very well tear it appart to see what in their......
    Geoff
     
  5. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 1999
    Messages:
    1,220
    Likes Received:
    0
    Geoff,
    About 4 monthys ago this unit (the one offered by AR) was discussed extensively on one of the other forums. Don't remember how many participated in the reviews, but certaily more than a few people.
    I think the consensus was they thought the sound was different "harmonic enhancement", but after a while the novelty of that sound wore off, and they preferred the sound the way it was before.
    I may be stating the results incorrectly, as I don't remember exactly, but my impressions were that it wasn't a miracle success.
    More discussions on the same type of device going on in the "Tweaks forum" here
     
  6. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks Bruce for taking time to add something to this thread and also directing me to another discussion.
    So I am holding out a little I guess you might say:::
    I do have (3) of these in a DD DTS system along with Eq-ing. I was waiting for some others to discuss there thoughts and or experiences with or without the unit. I will say that they certainly bring things out especialy in the midrange and also seems to soften the high end on harsh recordings or speakers by rolling off the very very top end amongest other things mentioned in Pro reviews I can't seem to locate at the moment. I am assuming this from what I hear and have read though I have not actually measured anything as of yet.
    Is it messing with even/odd order harmonics???
    BUT:::
    People with very accurate systems and speakers I would *NOT* recommend this unit to. But for lower end speakers with in your face tweeters, poorly designed horns or spin off horn types and clouded, lousy, or missing midrange might find that this dose quite a pleaseing job of making your speakers sound impressivly better.
    The (TDS-202 box ALONE) on my bedroom system "WITH OUT" some very minor eq-ing, the midrage becomes quite dominit. It made a world of differance on my center channel to the good (the weakest link in my speakers) bt over all I didn't like them at the start. There is no question I do hear things buried in the mix that I DID NOT hear before. Testing the TDS is tuff as you have to calibrate for the difference in spl as there is a gain of 1 to as much as 3-db in over all spl. 3-db our my bedroom system and NOT frequency specific but like just turning your volume up 1 to 3 db..
    Though not a proper test, I did experiment side by side with one speaker useing the TDS and one not. On a mono signal with the Right side useing (TDS-202 AND EQ-ING) and the Left NOT and useing the balance control to run back and forth. Speakers are (side by side in the middle of the room). Of course imaging, speration, sound stage, etc cannot be tested this way,,,,, but added noise or hiss and difference in sound pulled from the same source, CAN.
    So after all my playing around on my system I took one box to a neighbors and hooked it up to some "very" cheap KLH bookshelf speakers running of a 811S Pioneer. No eq's here and the difference was drastic. Doing just stereo with no sub and speakers full range tone controls flat. Straight up I honestly can't stand to listen to these speakers for more than 10 miniutes no matter what he plays.
    But the TDS did wonders for his speakers. I brought with me a CD I am very familar with over me (Johnathan Butler Accoustic) and his KLH speakers just destroy this recording. With the TDS in place my mouth just droped. The ear ripping treble gone, the midrage cleaned up and the bass had a little punch to it. The sound stage opened up and just overall things in the mix I know are their now finally could be heard on his speakers. I was quite amazed at what this little box was doing. Shocked actually....
    What the hell is in their???
    No added noise or hiss, on average a 2-3db gain in volume from a passive unit and what *is described* in the ~{2nd link I posted above}~ was doing a pretty good jop of happening, and doing it quite well I might add. They don't mention in that link, the treble rolling off or the sharpness in some recordngs on the very very highend. I did read about this in some pro and user reviews that I am unable to find at this time.
    Will post review links if and when I can find them in the starting post.
    The speakers being used in our bedroom system are Wharfedales Emerald Series 99's, 95's,93's and matching Center in Oak. Head unit is a Mid End older Yammie and the DD DTS processor is a Technics 500.
    When I first got them they where installed and lasted a week before they were boxed back up to go back. Thats when I (Experimented with TDS and the Eq's in line) and felt the differance was worth keeping then. Very minior eq-ing at that. Don't beat me to hard now that we have to things in line before amplification. [​IMG]
    The neighbor demo thing was a test I did a couple weeks later that leads me to belive people with lower end speaks might find this very benifical to their stereo system.
    At 60.00 bucks it won't break the bank and might tie you over till you can upgrade to a more accurate speaker system. Of course you need 1 for stereo and 3 for DD DTS formates, also pre-ins and outs on your reciever to make use of them in DD DTS. One directional cabels are included.
    HTB speakers, stuff like KLH, etc. Nothing personal ment in anyway to anyone useing any of the speakers mentioned....
    Regards
    Geoff
     
  7. Saurav

    Saurav Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Messages:
    2,174
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  8. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nope, just the standard search. :b
    Never gave that a thought Saurav, thanks will check it out. [​IMG]
    Might try the sine wave tones threw them as you mention.
    Do you remember what was concluded from those that tried the Sine Wave tones Saurav?
    Thanks
    Geoff
     
  9. Saurav

    Saurav Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2001
    Messages:
    2,174
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  10. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    I certainly agree with that comment.[​IMG]
    If you like your set up, be it what it may, to hell with what others think.
    Geoff
     
  11. Geoff L

    Geoff L Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2000
    Messages:
    1,693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Oops

    Double Post:b
     

Share This Page