Ackk!! My Paradigm Studio 60s poduces lackluster sound!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Antonio, Apr 4, 2002.

  1. Antonio

    Antonio Extra

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2002
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    I purposely bought the Paradigm Studio 60s because they were floorstanders and hoped that it would produce enough bass so that I would not have to buy a killer sub. I live in an attached house and so I have to be careful else the neighbors come knocking. Well, I have played various music on it; from Bach's organ stuff to the Cardigans "My Favorite Game" and noticed that the highs are ok but the mid range and bass are lacking. It is as if its not really there. I auditioned the B&W 604 S3s in the matrix lobby scene (no sub) and those pushed a lot of air. Great bass.
    I have read that the Studio series are supposed to be better but I am seriously dissapointed.
    The Cambridge FPS2000 sound better (crisper highs and can produce gut punching lows at moderate volumes) compared to the Studio 60s right now. I have noticed that there is little to no air being pushed out of the front port on the 60s. What the heck. At all volumes it seems to be lacking bass/mid range.
    These speakers are not impressing me and I was going from an old JVC noise filled bookshelf system to this. What is driving the Paradigms? A Yamaha RX630 (75 watts per channel [​IMG]), sony discman for cds (temporary till I buy a dvd player), el cheapo silver/copper wires (have to measure out lengths soon), and that's about it.
    Is there a possibility that the speakers are defective? or maybe that is how its supposed to sound? Both of them exhibit the same problem [​IMG]... Thanks for any input!
     
  2. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2001
    Messages:
    503
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you mean an older Yamaha 2-channel amp or the new RX-V630? If so, that model likely doesn't have the juice to drive the speakers. The minimum Yamaha model I'd use for those speakers would be the RX-V1200. I know it is only rated at 80Wpc, but I believe the amps are far more robust than in the lower models. I had the same problem, though with different gear (Mordaunt-Short 906, Yamaha RX-V390, 60Wpc). When I upgraded to a Marantz SR6200 the sound improved noticably, especially the bass.
     
  3. GabrielC

    GabrielC Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2001
    Messages:
    101
    Likes Received:
    0
    These may sound simple, but they may be a possible cause for problems:

    1) Did you somehow take off or loosen the plates between the two binding posts? (used for biamping/biwiring)

    2) How thin are these el-cheapo wires? You'll find that you'll have a decently large increase in bass output if you switch to thicker cabling if you started with very thin wires.
     
  4. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
    I'm going to have to say it is the gear you have.

    1) Not nearly enough power, or not enough CLEAN power for those speakers. When the 604's "pushed a lot of air", what amp were they driven with?

    2) A disc-man is definitely NOT the way to go. The electronics inside are just not going to produce quality sound, no matter what.

    Wire length will make no difference.

    Most floor standers do not cover the lowest frequencies, so you will be lacking somewhat for movies, but they should work very well for music listening. You will still need a good sub to get the low stuff.

    Paradigms are fairly sensitive to placement, so try moving them around.

    You also should give the speakers some time to break in. Just use them regularly, but don't expect a night and day difference.
     
  5. Bob_A

    Bob_A Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    876
    Likes Received:
    0
    Try out some different receivers, different cables, different cd player, different speaker placements, etc.
     
  6. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2002
    Messages:
    575
    Likes Received:
    0
    :b Speakers in phase? Might sound too basic, but make sure, as this will kill your bass for sure.

    Good luck.
     
  7. Antonio

    Antonio Extra

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2002
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
    Lets see...

    I am using the new Yamaha RX630 and paid $400 for it. I believe I can return it (only been 4 days since I bought it).

    I have left the jumper plate alone in the back.

    As for the B&W 604s, they were driven by I think Rotel/Arcam stuff. The dealer said $1000 for the amp, $1000 processor, and $1000 for the dvd player. Uh I don't know about you guys but thats some expensive stuff.

    Can I get decent quality by spending $800 to $1000 on electronics? Any suggestions for equipment??

    I will be listening to mostly music so I do not need gut punching bass but a little rumbling would be appreciated and that I am not getting from these speakers. I placed my hand in front of the port while playing music and there is almost no air movement. I do have a PDR-8 sub but it is not connected as I would like to see the mains perform.

    The Studio 60s are about 8 inches from the wall and about 4.5 feet from each other. I doubt that the location of the speakers have much to do with the bass being actually produced (or not produced in my case).

    Bob_A: I wish I could do that but I don't have too much time or money lying around.
     
  8. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
     
  9. Mikey B

    Mikey B Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2001
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    0
    The 60's are very good speakers and will produce more than decent bass by themselves. The first thing I would do is replace the cheapo speaker wire with some thicker inexpensive wire from Radio Shack or Home Depot or Circuit City. Get something in the 14 or 16 guage size. Then be very sure you connect the possitive side of the receiver speaker terminal to the possitive side of the speakers terminals...and likewise with the negative side. Be certain you have both speakers connected properly. This is a very inexpensive tweak and might partially solve your problems. The CD source you are using probably also contributes to your problem. Beg, borrow, buy or steal a DVD player (or real CD player) and at least demo it in your system to see if that improves things. I don't think your receiver is the main cause...Yamaha's usually mate pretty well with Paradigm's, and the 60's are a fairly easy load to drive. If you can borrow a beafier demo receiver, that may be worthwhile to prove whether an upgrade is in order or not.
     
  10. Jim Prillaman

    Jim Prillaman Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    102
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mikey's got some good suggestions, both on speaker wire and source. It might also not hurt to replace the jumper bars with some of that new speaker wire (maybe some 12ga stuff -- it's downright cheap at Home Depot). I actually bi-wired my Studio 60's with 12ga Home Depot wire when I first got them, I've never put a signal across the jumper bars that came with my speakers.
     
  11. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2000
    Messages:
    838
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why didn't you buy the 604's then...?

    80 watts is plenty for decent output. Don't be ridiculous and say that it's the amps fault. Moving to 160 watts would only gain 3db at the top. The difference between a disc-man and a real dvd/cd player is not going to be that large either.

    Thicker wire, phase problems, or positioning are much more plausible solutions.
     
  12. KonradN

    KonradN Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2000
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    0
    did you at least listen to the studio 60 at the dealer before buying it and if so do your studio 60 with your equipment perform similar to what you heard in the store?
     
  13. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
     
  14. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
    I just looked up the specs for that receiver, and it seems like it should have enough power to drive the 60s, so it is probably not the receiver.

    I also noticed it has a 4/8ohm switch, try both settings. If I'm not mistaken, the 60s are something like 6ohm?

    It also has an A/B selector, make sure it is only on A, and the speakers are hooked to A. It also has pre-amp outs, so if it is a lack of power, you can add an amp.

    One more thing, what MODE are you listening in? Turn off all DSPs, and listen just in stereo, then see how it sound.
     
  15. Antonio

    Antonio Extra

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2002
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  16. Antonio

    Antonio Extra

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2002
    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  17. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 1999
    Messages:
    11,571
    Likes Received:
    24
    Location:
    NorCal
    Real Name:
    John
    Try an optical cable. They often come with mini-adapters for discman/MD/MP3 players for this type of use. Not sure if it will help, but it is worth a shot for relatively low cost. I can't guarantee this is the problem, but I have experienced it before when trying something like this out.
     
  18. Mike Veroukis

    Mike Veroukis Second Unit

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    455
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Canada
    Real Name:
    Michael
    One more little hint I didn't see anyone mention: make sure that Bass output is set to either "Both" or "Main". I know with my HTR5450 I can redirect all bass only to the sub if I so choose. This is independent of the speaker size setting.
    One other thing... Someone mentioned trying FM radio. How did that sound? You mentioned you have a computer. If you have a good soundcard try hooking up the line-out to the amp's inputs and play a CD on your computer (and if you're using a cable modem and get a hum, ignore it for now, that's a problem I just solved earlier this week with my setup [​IMG] ).
    Well, in a few days I'll be getting my Studio40s which are pretty much the bookshelf version of the 60s. I'll hook them up to my 5450 which is similar in power to your particular amp (80watt/ch, right?). I'll let ya know how it sounds.
    - Mike
     
  19. Cary P

    Cary P Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2000
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    0
    Antonio,

    I don't mean to beat a dead horse here, but those electronics are simply not doing the Studio 60's any justice!

    A discman playing through the headphone output is not the best way to judge the sound of a pair of quality speakers. I would recommend getting a decent CD player if you listen to a lot of music on your system. Check out the Audio/Video Sources section of the Home Theater Forum for some good discussions on CD players. There is currently a lot of talk about the recent price reductions on Sony Super Audio CD players. I would recommend the Sony SCD-C222ES, which can be had for about $380 right now. I don't think you can do better for quality CD playback at that price, and you will also get multi-channel SACD capability as a bonus if you decide to go that route. Since you stated that you would be listening to mostly music, I would go for the cheapest DVD player possible (
     
  20. Mal P

    Mal P Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2000
    Messages:
    127
    Likes Received:
    0
    Howdy,

    Also consider the possibility that the discman is rolling off the bass so as to prevent distortion when using standard headphones (which can't really handle all that much bass).

    Try to borrow a proper CD player, upgrade your speaker wire to any 12 gauge, and make sure the bass is sent to your mains.

    Cheers,

    Mal
     

Share This Page