About to get a Pioneer VSX-49TX - any reason not to? (1 Viewer)

[Scott Merryfield]

The MCACC auto balance/EQ works very well.

Paul, I am curious as to whether the 49TX set all your speaker sizes to LARGE, or did it attempt to determine the proper setting for each speaker? This was the only thing the MCACC feature got 'wrong' on my 47TX. There is no way my B&W LCR6 center or 602S2 surrounds should be set to LARGE.

FYI, I manually set the center and surrounds to SMALL, the crossover to 80Hz, and re-ran the MCACC. It once again set everything to LARGE.

Otherwise, the MCACC seemed to get everything else right, although I did boost the LFE level slightly. Speaker levels and distances were right on, and the room EQ seemed to smooth out a few frequency problems.

 

[PaulKH]

Scott - it set my center and surrounds to small, and my fronts to large. The front setting is debatable, they do have good range, but they're not huge floor standing speakers - they're ancient Missions on their own stands.

I think it's possible to do the calibration without auto-setting everything so it doesn't pick speaker size, but I could be wrong. Lots to read in that manual!

 

[Robert George]

I have been experimenting extensively with the auto-calibration feature of the 49. I've been running it under different conditions and with different configurations. The end settings seem to always follow a set pattern, as it should.
My main speakers are B&W N804s and the center is a B&W HTM-2, which uses similar drivers to the 804s (supposedly a tonal match). The side and back surrounds are Atlantic Technology 354SR. The surrounds are standard THX certified dipole surrounds with a flat frequency response rating only down to 80 Hz (per THX spec). The fronts, on the other hand, are rated flat to 45 Hz on the mains and 56 Hz on the center. No matter what settings I start out with, the MCACC always sets the mains and center to "large" and the surrounds to "small".
To try to undertstand what the MCACC is trying to do, one should take into account how the calibration has been set up. The reference the MCACC is trying to match a given room to is George Martin's (yes, the Beatle's George Martin) Air Studio in London. The MCACC is programmed with an EQ response curve derived from this British recording studio. Some have found the sound slightly on the "bright" side using the MCACC, and I would expect that to be the case based on what the EQ curve is based on.
After several days experimentation, I have found the best results suiting my tastes is to run the MCACC then go back and tweak some of the settings. I switch all speakers to small with a crosssover setting of 80 Hz. I also manually adjust the channel eq's to reduce some of the higher frequencies that the program boosts. I have been able to smooth out the sound a bit while still keeeping the tremendous detail and clarity the MCACC gives my system. I have also taken the additional step of adding an outboard eq to my pair of SVS subs (using both sub outs from the receiver) since the MCACC does not eq the subwoofer output.
Sounds like a lot of trouble, I know, and the addition of a dedicated amp for the L/R mains and an outboard eq for the subs adds to the cost of the system, but I think the end result was worth it. I have never heard a receiver sound so good. Never.

 

[Joe Schwartz]

Robert, another option is to use the "Front Align" MCACC mode. This equalizes only the center and surround speakers to approximate the response curve of the main left/right speakers. To me, this sounded slightly better than the "All Channel Adjust" mode, which uses the Air Studios response curve as you described.

 

[Robert George]

Thanks for the tip, Joe. I'll try that next. There is still much to learn about this piece.

 

[PaulKH]

Robert - very surprised your 49TX cuts out the fronts when you play SW:TPM at 0 level - doesn't sound right to me - you sure you're getting enough power to the receiver?

You mentioned you have twin SVS subs and huge fronts and you play SW:TPM at 0 level - that must be INCREDIBLY loud!

 

[Scott Merryfield]

I think it's possible to do the calibration without auto-setting everything so it doesn't pick speaker size, but I could be wrong. Lots to read in that manual!

You are correct, Paul. I simply adjusted the speaker size settings after running the MCACC program. I was just curious whether the program always selected the LARGE setting. It obviously does not, based on your and Obi's results on the 49TX. The difference must either be my room conditions or a slightly different implementation of the feature in the 47TX.

 

[Robert George]

...very surprised your 49TX cuts out the fronts when you play SW:TPM at 0 level - doesn't sound right to me - you sure you're getting enough power to the receiver?

Paul:

Just for the sake of clarity, it is not just the fronts that shut down, the receiver shuts down completely. This is the overload protection that is built in. BTW, I could also shut down the Onkyo 989 I had just before the B&K 307. The receiver is running on regular old house current. If I am remembering my house wiring 101 correctly, I think there is something like 2500 watts at a standard outlet. I'm sure that isn''t the problem. I believe with the eq curve of my rather large volume room, the power supply just doesn't have enough juice for this one nasty peak in this new THX logo.

Also, I tried Joe's suggestion using the "Front Align" setting. I find it an improvement over the "All Channels Adjust" setting.

 

[PaulKH]

Couple of quick questions/comments (I haven't made it all the way through the manual yet so bear with me)...

Maybe it didn't do this when I got it out of the box, but when I select 'standard' listening mode on the DVD source, it goes to standard:movie even though I may have previously set it to something else like standard:dd5.1. I don't want it to go to 'movie' for things like DVD audio sources. Is this a 'feature' or is there a way for me to leave it in some other mode?

Component video switching through the receiver may not be the way to go since the TV's single input then must be adjusted as a compromise between the different sources coming into the receiver. Specifically, the color/contrast/etc. out of my DVD and HD tuners isn't really similar, so using one input on the TV doesn't seem optimal. I could adjust the DVD player's settings, but prefer to do it in the TV. I may just route the HD tuner video direct to the second component input on the TV.

Someone else (maybe in another forum) mentioned dialog clarity with this receiver, and I'm finding that it's amazing. Dialog through the center channel sounds WAY more natural than it did with my Sony ES receiver. Great stuff.

That's all for now...

 

[Scott Merryfield]

Paul,

My experience when using 'STANDARD' mode is that your results will depend on the signal being received. DTS 5.1 is decoded as DTS, DD5.1 as DD5.1, DD1.0 as DD1.0, etc. However, for two-channel signals, you can choose between DPLII Movie, DPLII Music, DPL, etc. The receiver should remember your last selection for a two channel signal and use it until you change the selection.

So far, I have preferred DPLII Music instead of DPLII Movie for any Dolby Surround source signals. This presents a wider soundstage than DPLII Movie mode. I am using this mode for the DVD player and HD tuner. I have settled on Stereo for the default mode for CATV, and DIRECT for my digitally-attached CD player.

 

[PaulKH]

Doh - thanks Scott. Here was the source of my confusion... I have a DVD-Audio DVD that says it has 2 channel, 5.1DD, and DVD-Audio sound tracks. I can't for the life of me figure out how to get my player (Toshiba 4700) to read the 5.1DD and send it to the receiver though. I wanted to compare it to DVD-Audio, which I've heard by setting the player to 6ch analog out and the receiver to multi-channel 8 -- sounds GREAT. I can tell the player to play the 'DVD-VIDEO' track as priority of 'DVD-AUDIO' which I also thought might cause it to play the DD5.1 track but no luck so far (even telling it to output bitstream and not 6ch analog). This is why I was confused with the standard mode still saying PLII and not DD5.1.

Man this is tricky!

On a bright note I got my audio quality higher by going with the auto cal assessment of large fronts instead of small which I'd set it to. With small front setting I get way too much bass. With large front it's wonderfully balanced.

I had to play the Pearl Harbor big action scene tonight and the Star Wars Pod Race to work out the receiver tonight - WOW!!!! This is awesome.

Too bad the remote stinks more and more to me - I'll eventually get time to setup my Marantz RC5000 (same as Pronto) to make things simpler.

What a receiver though... incredible.

 

[PaulKH]

Robert - If you can shut down many receivers with SW:TPM perhaps you have some very inefficient speakers??? Something doesn't seem right. I played the pod race at 0 tonight... no problems. It was amazing.

 

[Chip E]

I went to see my friend at Tweeter today. Pioneer is taking to long to get me the 49TX. I ordered it December 17th or so... I cancelled the order. I bought a Denon 5803 instead(trading my 307 actually). Arrival date - March 11th.

 

[Miguel Stanic]

How can you get a Denon 5803 on March 11 when Denon doesn't even have this receiver on their web page. Furthermore, no dealer (at least in Canada) has one yet. I've yet to even see a picture of this beast. It looks like Denon is concentrating on the 5800 upgrade which I'm contemplating since own the 5800. I'm also contemplating the 5803 or 49TX. What would you guys do?

Chip, if you don't mind me asking, how much is the 5803 costing you? Are they seriously going to have one for you by March 11? I hope they do cause it means we, in Canada, should be getting it also. This may put a hold on the 49TX that I was ready to trade the 5800 in for. Only because I'm impatient.

 

[Chip E]

"How can you get a Denon 5803 on March 11 when Denon doesn't even have this receiver on their web page."
My dealer showed me the slated delivery date on his computer screen. Obviously this could change. Pioneer Elite receivers are no longer a stock item at Tweeter (special order and he's having issues getting a 49TX). They carry the full Denon line. As far as he and i are concerned, it's March 11th. Never know though, i ain't sweat'n it.

 

[Jon Teddlie]

Chip, I can't say I blame you for not waiting any longer on the 49TX. Would you mind letting us know how much your dealer was selling the 5803 for?? Just curious.

Thanks

 

[PaulKH]

Chip - there's plenty of places to get a 49TX. If you still want one, let me know.

 

[Chip E]

Paul thanks,

I'm locked in on this deal. It's a trade for my B&K 307.

 

[JaleelK]

How can you get a Denon 5803 on March 11 when Denon doesn't even have this receiver on their web page. Furthermore, no dealer (at least in Canada) has one yet. I've yet to even see a picture of this beast. It looks like Denon is concentrating on the 5800 upgrade which I'm contemplating since own the 5800. I'm also contemplating the 5803 or 49TX. What would you guys do?

Why are you so interested in throwing money away? I think you should keep your 5800. The 49TX nor the 5803 is really an upgrade, it more of a lateral grade. The 49TX or 5803 doesn't really offer anything significant from what the 5800 already offers. The 5800 is overkill in terms of what features you are really going to be using. With the execption of Pro-logic2, I personally don't think thats a must have feature, what features does the 49TX and 5803 has that the 5800 doesn't thats that are really pratical?

 

[Chip E]

Jaleelk,

Let people spend their money they way they see fit ok? No one asked your opinion on whether to buy a 49TX or 5803. Your spending habits are your business but, does everyone have to be like you? Really man, your constant posting about spending money is really becoming tiresome. Give it a rest. If you had something to contribute in a positive light instead of insisting people are wasting their money, then that would be great.. stick too the topic (if you can). Rant over.