A used Lex or an H/K AVR 8000?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Steve K.H., May 27, 2002.

  1. Steve K.H.

    Steve K.H. Supporting Actor

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    The pieces are starting to come together... 90% HT

    -Sony 51" Widescreen (sweet)
    -Paradigm Monitor series (also sweet) 5.1 to start, 7.1 possibly by Christmas,
    -Sub is still up in the air...either going to be Paradigm PS1200, but I'm leaning towards the SVS 35-31, or Hsu VTF2.

    The AVR 8000 has no upgrade path. It does not have THX-U2. It will need another amp to power the additional two channels (eventually).

    It does allow for decoding of 5.1 to Logic 7 (that is a HUGE plus for me, the main selling feature). It is THX Ultra certified (whatever). It has lots of head room for powering the 5.1.

    The DC-1, DC-2, MC-1 have an upgrade path. More can be done with the Logic 7 than others. Of course, I would need a couple of amps, maybe two 5.1's at 100/channel, and maybe bi-amp 3 for the fronts, or assign a couple to the sub.

    Either way I go, I'll likely have no warranty. I'm willing to sacrifice this for substantial savings on-line. The H/K will arrive here for about $1850 U.S. ($2700 Cndn) as opposed to $4000 Cndn locally. $1300 diffence and no warranty? Sign me up.

    Option A) Used Lex, pick up some amps (probably the Parasound) Going HD, the lack of Comp Vid Switching could be a deterrent.

    Option B) AVR 8000. I would keep this for 5 years.

    Option C) An intermediate receiver with a host of features, and start building the amps to support the separates route. This would be sold again in a year. If so, I wouldn't care if this was say a Marantz 7200, Onkyo 797, H/K 520, Denon 2802, etc.

    -I'm struggling with this dilemma.
     
  2. Brian Schucher

    Brian Schucher Supporting Actor

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    If you are going HD i wouldnt let the lack of Component switching deter you. I would IMHO always go straight to the source with that anyways.
     
  3. AntonS

    AntonS Stunt Coordinator

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    Steve,

    Adding external amp to AVR8000 made such a dramatic difference in sound in my system (running Paradigm Studios) that I would recommend you getting one right away without waiting for 7.1 setup. AVR8000 has decent amps (in fact ones of the best for receivers), but they are still no match to a good external amp. You can run surrounds with them, or second zone, but for powering the fronts get something else.

    Now, as you will need exteral amp anyway, and if you are tight on the budget, option C may look more interesting. You'll have better sound by getting intermediate receiver and running it with external amp than bying only the AVR8000 and running its own amps.

    AVR8000 can be bought for $1600 in US. You can find good 5ch amp (Parasound, Sherbourn) on audiogon.com for about $1200-$1400. H/K 520 with limited Logic 7 can be found for $600.
     
  4. Camp

    Camp Cinematographer

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  5. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    Steve,

    You should go to lexicon.com and download the MC1 owner's manual as well as the Theory Design book...reading these will give you an understanding of how Lexicon's processing works, and the incredible inherent ability to tweak the sound. The HK AVR8000 will not be able to do this.

    Used DC1s go for ~ $1200, MC1s ~ $2100...DC2s ~ $1750 (audio innards are the SAME as MC1)....all prices are for models with the latest version 4.0 software...and I don't think you have an upgrade path, unless you get an MC1 that hasn't been traded in yet (then the unit would quality for a future lexicon trade-in). You may know from the long Mike Knapp thread that I have owned over 12 processors in the past 3 years. IMO, it's almost impossible to beat a loaded DC1 for DVD/DSS surround processing. Also, with Logic7 (on 2.0 and 5.1 sources), DPL2 and THX Ultra2 are not necessary.

    I also have a MINT parasound 1205A 140x5 amp for sale if you are interested.

    Ricky
     
  6. James Hibbert

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    Steve,

    I also live in Canada.I bought the HK 8000 from J&R in NY.They are an authorized dealer and it cost me $1836US shipped.

    You also have to pay taxes and a small fee(because it was not made in Canada or the US) when it crosses the border.It amounted to $500CAN.Still a great savings compared to Canadian prices.

    I'm running Paradigm Studio 100's et al with it and have no problems, although I have been out to demo some amps lately.The ones in the HK will be fine for the time being.I'd go Bryston or Classe for the amps and take advantage of a Canadian product as it is cheaper than in the US.

    Good Luck
     
  7. Steve K.H.

    Steve K.H. Supporting Actor

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    Ricky, zactly why I'm debating... those points all have me thinking this one through.

    James, the guaranteed price in Canadian funds, inc shipping duties and taxes for the 8000 is Total Price: $2866.07

    This is why I'm in a bit of a dilemma... but maybe not, as the Lex HAS to be in my house (just a matter of when).

    The comments on the upgrade path are well taken. I meant it along the lines that if they were without version 4.0, they aren't outdated if you upgrade.

    DPLII is blown away by Logic 7, Marantz's Circle Surround, and I suppose THX Ultra. THX Ultra is agreeably somewhat useless, when you have a Lex.

    Ricky, I have been in touch with Lex... the trade in on upgraded units wasn't something I was aware of. I was always under the impression if they had been sold by the original owner, you were hooped.

    Still debating the choices... I MAY just take the advice and go with option C, and flip an A/V unit next year...
     
  8. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    Don't quote me, but I think the Lexicon trade-in program has to do with whether or not an MC1 serial number has been traded in for an MC12. I don't think software versions matter.

    As long as you get a used DC1 (and used power amps) at goods prices, they should not depreciate more than $100-200 over the next 6-12 months. In contrast, the newer receivers will drop more in price.
     
  9. chung_sotheby

    chung_sotheby Supporting Actor

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    usually, Lexicons are easily upgradeable, and they are the reference for moderately priced processors. They sound great and have great reliability. If you buy a good amp, then you can use that thing for 10 or more years, for amp technology has not progressed nearly as fast as processing technology. So if you get a used dc-1/2 or MC-1, that is between $1k-2k, plus an good five channel amp, ~$1k, you're looking at an investment that will last about 1.5 years for the processor, and 10 years for the amp. If you get the HK8000, this will be obsolete within 2 years, and you will have to get a whole new receiver with a new amp section. I always think that if you are looking to spend over $1300 on your processing and amping sections, go with seperates. This way, you will always have a good amp that you can add on to. Nowadays, high-end receivers are depreciating almost at the rate of computers, while amps tend to keep their value much better, sometimes even appreciating as time goes by (Mcintosh).
     
  10. Shawn O

    Shawn O Stunt Coordinator

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    Also consider that currently you cannot use multichannel SACD and DVD-A on the Lex DC-1,DC-2 & Mc-1.
     
  11. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    As long as ac3, dts, DPL2, 6.1 ES/EX, THX Ultra2 are the main surround decoders on current receivers/prepros and consumers are not using more than 7 speakers [​IMG], the DC1/DC2/MC1 would not be obsolete, as Logic7 is already the equal or better than all these modes...IMO, the horizon is closer to 4+, not 1.5, years before these modes and therefore, Logic7 become obsolete.
    One can easily add TWO 5.1 inputs and stereo analog bypass to a Lexicon (or any other processor) by getting the Sony TA-P9000es analog preamp for ~ $450.
     
  12. chung_sotheby

    chung_sotheby Supporting Actor

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    Yeah, but for around $450 you can get a Sony TA-P9000es to handle any SACD or DVD-A players that you might want to use, and by adding the Sony you have increased flexibility. But if one is looking for a processor that must have 5.1 ins, then the Lexicon MC-1, DC1/2 is not the way to go.
     
  13. chung_sotheby

    chung_sotheby Supporting Actor

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    Hey rick, I posted basically the exact same thing as you at the same time. When I started the reply, nothing was there, by the time I hit submit, I had basically copied your post.
     
  14. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    Chung,

    Unless you want to engage the prepro's bass mgmt on the 5.1 inputs, what's the difference between the prepro and the Sony processing the 5.1 inputs? Can't the TAP be considered "part" of the Lex? The TAP is probably the cleaner analog signal.
     
  15. chung_sotheby

    chung_sotheby Supporting Actor

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    There is almost no difference, but with the SOny you can hook up more than one 5.1 device into it, and the Lexicons don't have 5.1 inputs, so it is impossible to hook up a multi-channel DVDA or SACD player to these pre/pros. Also, the TAP is probably a cleaner signal than almost any pre/pro's 5.1 imputs, for it was specifically designed to pass through a 5.1 signal with minimal degredation and sound coloration.
     
  16. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    Chung,

    I'm not sure what we are debating. What I mean is, if a person is looking for a prepro with 5.1 inputs, why can't they get the Lex/TAP combo? The TAP actually increases the life/useability of these Lexicons and would also work as a super clean 2 channel preamp.
     
  17. Chip E

    Chip E Screenwriter

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    Or.... you could just buy a 5803. [​IMG]
    heh,heh..
     
  18. chung_sotheby

    chung_sotheby Supporting Actor

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    Oh, sorry, I didnt understand your question. I think that the lex/TAP combo is a great substitute for a pre/pro with 5.1 inputs. Conceivable, yes, one could get this combo instead of a pre/pro with 5.1 inputs. As for using it as a 2 ch preamp, this could be a little hairy, for the unit only has 4 inputs, 3 of which are 5.1, and one 5.1 and the 2 channel input are bypass loops. So the preamp functions of this unit are only for the two 5.1 inputs that are not bypasses. But it is still a great unit.
     
  19. John Tompkins

    John Tompkins Supporting Actor

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    You can use the L/R of either of the 5.1 inputs for a two channel source to great effect. Ive done it and the sonys 5.1 inputs add NOTHING to the sound except volume control.
     
  20. BeatCrazy

    BeatCrazy Stunt Coordinator

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    Hey, count me in as someone using a Lex and TAP9000ES. I get the best of both worlds: outstanding performance for Logic 7 2.0 and 5.1 and two super-clean 5.1 inputs.

    Chip E, while the 5803 is undoubtably one of the finest recievers ever made, I'd still prefer my set-up. Reasoning: well, Logic 7 smokes DPLII in my experience. The Lex has adjustable THX paramaters and more flexibility than the 5803. Yes the 5803 does have newer chips, but I'd also be paying for a lot of stuff I don't need: amps, all that video switching, etc.
     

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