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A Solution to the Pan&Scan vs. OAR problem?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jay Taylor, Jan 26, 2002.

  1. Jay Taylor

    Jay Taylor Supporting Actor

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    Steven Page mentioned in another thread something that could solve the conflict between Pan & Scan and OAR fans. It would also eliminate the need to have both P&S and OAR versions on the DVD:

     
  2. Eric Huffstutler

    Eric Huffstutler Screenwriter

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    AaronMK also made a valid comment on the follow statement same forum:
     
  3. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

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    Because they're all a bunch of idiots and probably can't figure out how to work the program to do that?

    Glenn
     
  4. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    1) It simply fills anamorphic material- 2.35:1 movies would still have black bars. It wouldn't work on non-anamorphic discs (which are, thankfully, almost extinct).

    The bars on 2.35:1 would be the same size as 1.85:1 bars on 4:3 which is the whole source of complaints in the first place. The above quote that they wouldn't care is silly-- if they didn't care about black bars, we wouldn't be talking about this in the first place.

    2) The cropped sides works okay for some stuff- but any image movement within the frame (ie scanning) is horrible. So basically the image is locked into a simple left right crop rather than being able to reframe to best serve the action. If you ask the player to move around in the frame, it is usually unwatchable.

    3) It relys greatly on player hardware- which developers are shying away from more and more everyday as it simply leads to problems. Stuff like seamless branching has been on the decline because it relys too much on the players ability to do its job- and the advent of $99 DVD players means that they will have boatloads of returned discs.

    4) I spoke with one "industry figure" who basically said he didn't think the average P&S fan could figure out how to manipulate the menus in order to achieve PAN&SCAN on the fly-- and if they can they probably already have their player set to 16x9 and have trhe picture stretched rather than have black bars. I honestly think that's true.

     
  5. Eric Huffstutler

    Eric Huffstutler Screenwriter

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    Vince,

    You may have a point that adding a bit more code to the disc to make a player pan and scan from frrame to frame will make the player work overtime.

    But on the other hand, J6P may see the light if they have to continously buy those $80 players!

    I am sure there has to be a way to make the player follow code to center a frame without so much overhead on the hardware?
     
  6. Sean Conklin

    Sean Conklin Screenwriter

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    I have a better idea, lets just have ALL releases released in OAR period. And if "Average Consumer" wants the film on DVD he/she has the choice to either buy it or don't buy it!

    If this is their only choice, they will come around! And if they don't come around, VHS usually fills the screen!
     
  7. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

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    I still say that it would be better to do this with the DVD player. Just have it 'grab' the center part of the picture. If you select 4:3, you get 1/3 of the picture, and maybe they'll 'get it' then.

    Glenn
     
  8. Jay Taylor

    Jay Taylor Supporting Actor

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    From Vince:

     
  9. Jay Taylor

    Jay Taylor Supporting Actor

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    Also from Vince:

     
  10. Marc Deslauriers

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    If J6P really is that stupid, why not just mark "DVD" on VHS cassettes?
     
  11. Jesse Skeen

    Jesse Skeen Producer

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    I propose using THX certification on all VHS tapes (as it has been on many titles, though obviously it still does not guarantee perfect quality). Make the THX logo REALLY big on the front cover though, and have something like "THX-VHS: DVD quality that fills your screen! Fully compatible with your existing equipment!" This will make the Joe Sixpacks think they're getting something really cool without buying any new equipment, and most likely they won't be able to tell the difference! Anyone with me on this? [​IMG]
     
  12. Doug Pyle

    Doug Pyle Second Unit

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    Vince's counter-arguments are painfully convincing. Because unfortunately, studios do want to sell to p&s idiots.

    Still, I think this solution would be ideal if the obstacles Vince raised can be resolved.

    One obstacle - hardware scanning the P&S image disturbs the image quality - can be resolved by not scanning. Just freeze the image in the least-bad portion of the full image. The hope for this being accepted is hinted at in the other the point Vince made, about the 'no black bars' types not caring about a stretched image:

    If they don't care about losing the sides of the image, why "reframe to best serve the action"? The only way to "best serve th action" is not to pan-and-scan!

    So, for the no-black-bars mob, just keep the image still whatever least-bad position the shot allows. The 'no black bars' type doesn't care anyway about what image they can't see. Then, if they then complain about missing some important part of the image, they can view it in OAR.

    Solved?
     
  13. Vince Maskeeper

    Vince Maskeeper Producer

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    I still think you're not going to get around the problem of 2.35:1 movies still having black bars.

    Don't think I don't agree guys- because I do- but I think we need to see the realities of why these features aren't being used. There has to be good reason because it would save studios a boatload of money, and appease the consumer at the same time. If it's not happening- there are certainly good reasons why!

    -Vince
     
  14. Jason Hughes

    Jason Hughes Supporting Actor

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    Why can't Joe and Jane six-pack just go a buy a DVD player with the Zoom feature? Sure it degrades the quality, but if they want P&S they don't care about quality. Besides, they will be so tickled pink that by pushing a button they can make those sinful black bars go away, they wont notice the lower quality.

    My mother just bought one of those DVDs and, well, like they say ignorance is bliss. She's quite happy now.
     
  15. Nick_Scott

    Nick_Scott Second Unit

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    __________________________________________________ __

    Why can't Joe and Jane six-pack just go a buy a DVD

    player with the Zoom feature? Sure it degrades the

    quality, but if they want P&S they don't care about

    quality. Besides, they will be so tickled pink that

    by pushing a button they can make those sinful black

    bars go away, they wont notice the lower quality.

    __________________________________________________ __

    While we are on the topic-

    Why can't J6P use the contrast knob instead of making DVDs with excessive EE?

    Why can't J6P use the Dynamic Compression on his DVD/TV instead of comprimised DD tracks?

    etc...
     

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