A response to a forum member question

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ben M, Aug 28, 2002.

  1. Ben M

    Ben M Auditioning

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    Hi LarryB,

    I have taken the liberty to start a new thread regarding your post about Diva. In observance of forum rules, I am addressing your post in a new thread as it is completely off topic from the original thread.

    In response to your post:
     
  2. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Very insightful upon your part. The Rockets do seem to be getting a lot of press, here and on other forums. While I think competition is good, it pains me to see things like this happening for then people become part of the neverending infomercial. Almost like going to those auto auctions that have shills planted in them. Some of the stuff is obvious...the byline at the bottom of the post, othertimes its part of the person's profile. To my mind, it does violate forum rules, and when it goes on, it casts a poor light upon the forum itself or the respective administrators who should be turning a more critical eye. Myself, I've never heard the Rockets and don't subscribe to the idea of buying something as subjective as speakers by mail that can't be heard otherwise. There's a person on another forum that announced he'd gottem them in and it was kind of funny to see the usual crowd weigh in with comments like "lucky...they sure look sweet...wow, they're not even broken in yet...I guess we'll be coming over your place this weekend...etc." Makes you wonder just who is being served by these reviews, or is it who is being served up?
     
  3. Cam S

    Cam S Screenwriter

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    Interesting topic, and I have to agree with you on most of what you said. I hate how there's a lot of advertising around here, not by Ron or Tom, but other people who I won't mention. Someone mentions their product, or a product directly competing with theirs and they run in and say all kinds of crap about their product. It get's kind of annoying really quick, especially when 2 companies start arguing in a thread, not exactly business like.
     
  4. Yee-Ming

    Yee-Ming Producer

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    funny that Swan Divas should get mentioned, just the other day the salesman at the shop (here in Singapore, mind you) mentioned them, as a business contact of his suggested that he might want to bring them into Singapore for sale at his shop, sort of as an exclusive agent I guess. but would Swan actually want to go that way, since they appear to operate as an Internet mail-order only company in the US?

    as a matter of interest, although nOrh is mail-order only in the US, there is a shop here in Singapore that sells them. one day I'll go demo them and see what the fuss is about, though I will say they look mighty nice. (BTW, afore-mentioned salesman was also familiar with nOrh, and told me if you personally make the trip to Thailand and buy direct, it is a helluva lot cheaper than any price you get via Internet. cheap enough so the trip's practically free, at least for us Singaporeans, dunno about you Americans...)
     
  5. Ned

    Ned Supporting Actor

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    The Rockets totally undercut the Diva products too.

    Everyone, EVERYONE, assumes that the Rockets are totally superior to every counterpart in the Diva line. But there isn't sufficient subjective and objective information to support this yet.

    Even Diva owners are probably feeling burned when they should have no reason to.

    Good observations Ben. M
     
  6. Mark LS

    Mark LS Stunt Coordinator

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    Dear Thread Participants...

    I guess for me the real question is do you want answers to your questions or comments... or would you like me to not offer a reply and just let the thoughts expressed here linger...

    The issues were NOT of greed at all... I expected to sell what we sold, in fact, we had hoped for about 20% more... (Speaking strictly about DIVA now)...

    I would hope you'd want me to reply... our commitment to our brands and our products are reasonably time tested now... (after a few years of doing this)...

    I'll look later at this thread after I have heard back from a few of you before offering more... I'm in China now... and it's off to the factory now...

    Thanks...

    And wishing everyone... All The Very Best...

    mls
     
  7. Michael Roderiques

    Michael Roderiques Stunt Coordinator

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    I have to admit that I stoped using this forum for a while due to the high volume of advertising it was getting. I still see quite a bit.
    When I worked for a audio equipment manufacturer I would only post answers to a question from a member.
    I did not put a tag line, signature or other things into any postings except my company e-mail address to promote the company I worked for.
    Over the years of being in this business, I have made a number of contacts. I have a very good contact with a first class manufacurer in China that makes components for a speaker often regarded here on the forum. I know I could get them at a really good price and pass that savings on the customer.......[​IMG]
     
  8. Winston_T

    Winston_T Agent

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    Humm....

    I'm not going to comment on a lot here... since, yes, it is subjective (business practice, retailers, etc). But I will comment on a few things I hope I can help out on. (I'm not an av123 employee, past, present, future (AFAIK :p)).


     
  9. Winston_T

    Winston_T Agent

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  10. Matt Jesty

    Matt Jesty Second Unit

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    quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    * Unless you are a paid advertiser of this forum, it is forbidden to promote personal commercial websites through links in posts or signatures.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It's only when you don't know who's advertising that gets me nervous
     
  11. Scott Oliver

    Scott Oliver Screenwriter

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    Hey they changed the posting rules.

    May 3rd: Forum Rules
    rule 7 (Dealer advertising is prohibited in the posting area of the forum)

    And now they have added this exception for paid advertisers.

    Definately disconcerting, but hey I guess it's not my time and money being invested in the site. Got to do what you got to do!
     
  12. Ben M

    Ben M Auditioning

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    This thread has become most interesting!

    To Chu Gai, Yes, I love your comment about the never ending infomercial. Even this thread itself which I started has become part of it. Once again, Diva and Rocket comparisons, Rockets are better. Mark L Shifter PRESIDENT and FOUNDER perpetual technologies/AV123. Why the tag line Mark??? Can a regular person even make a comment about Diva, Rocket, or SVS without having an employee or OWNER chime in with comments? If it isn't marketing, than WHAT IS IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    To Scott, I too find it most disconcerting that they changed the forum rules. What is interesting is that they can't legally exclude a company that does pay to advertise from posting a link while a paid advertiser can post a link. No matter what they might say, this IS a public forum and that is a violation of fair trade. However, as an enticement to attract manufacturers to pay for advertising in order to keep the forum going, I say business is business and do what you must to survive.

    To MLS of AV123, I would like to hear your take on this matter but not in this thread. Your tag line alone is "MARKETING" and myself and others in this thread are not buying into it.

    What wouldn't surprise me is if Swan Speaker Corporation decided to file suit against AV123 (onix brand?) for trade liable and violation of any pre-existing (if any) dealer agreements. I want to hear from Swan, the manufacturer of the Diva line, not AV123.

    To the many Diva fans, they are still being sold in all different flavors at very good prices. Just do a google search on "Swan Diva" and you will find many retailers. Oh, now even I am being sucked in....

    As they say, business as usual.

    I'm signing off
     
  13. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    Certainly good points. Now for the Devil's advocate:
    Do we want to give up the support and info people like Mark, Tom, Ron have provided in the past? If I were them, I don't know that I'd respond out of fear I might be accused of promoting my products against forum rules. Mark's response seemed to hint at this issue. If he actually responds to the issue/indictment, he risks being accused of shamelessly promoting his products. It's a tough nut to be in.
    I don't own SVS or Diva products, but I've seen their representatives providing a great deal of technical support to their customer base and everyone else on these forums. Doesn't seeing that person respond with a company title give them a little more credibility on some level? OK, let's assume it doesn't and we think it’s cheezy marketing…WE can still factor their input accordingly for ourselves.
    I also want to maintain a high degree of integrity on this site. But I also know I've benefited a great deal from input by many company reps in the past. And I’m not so sure I want them to stop posting.
    Anyway...Just my $0.02
    --Steve
    In the interest of full disclosure:
    I'm not a company rep. I just got my sorry A#$ laid off. Anyone looking for a northeastern sales rep can email me. Now my input can be factored in accordingly as well [​IMG]
     
  14. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Support is a good thing. Myself, I like to know if people are on the payroll so to speak and I've no particular objections to SVS having a presence as I know they're a forum sponsor and if I need to, I can factor that in. I just feel a bit uneasy with regards to the av123 thing as I don't understand where this is coming from. Are they a paid advertiser? I don't know. However I do look forward to some in-depth reviews of the product in other locations. Hopefully they'll be forthcoming.
     
  15. Winston_T

    Winston_T Agent

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  16. Gregg Loewen

    Gregg Loewen Video Standards Instructor, THX Ltd.
    Insider

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    HTF welcomes participation by industry personal which includes sponsors and non sponsors of HTF.
    However HTF does require that non advertising industry personal do not have direct links in their signatures. If any do want to have direct links please email [email protected] and he can arrange for that to happen.
    Regards
    Gregg
    PS: Mark LS, if you want to send a set my way Id be more than happy to demo them :)
    Gregg Loewen
    Lion Audio Video Consultants
    www.greggloewen.com
     
  17. Hal_J

    Hal_J Agent

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    there are a bizillion forums on the net where customers are complaining that the head honchos of a particular business (airline, hotel chain, computer maker, sexual lubricant factory) are out of the loop and dont respond to customers. yip yip yip. now here we are sort of resentful that the av123 employees and even owner are chiming in, and [gasp!] they are enthusiastic about their products. of course they are! "hi im mark, i started the company. youre right, we suck. i should be ashamed of myself!" [​IMG]
    here's my deal - when someone affiliated with the product speaks, i just want to know that they are affiliated. if some guy says "_________s are the end all speakers and horns are for losers," and then i look and see he is the president of the president of ________ Inc, i can properly discount his remarks.
    but guess what? before i buy his stuff i go listen to it, and if i dont like it, i dont buy it. seems simple.
    as for the original complaint that threads get hijacked by marketing, well, so it happens. my keyboard has a down arrow. my mouse has a scroll bar. i also have a 'page down' key i can press. all of these are methods i use to skip posts. :wink:
     
  18. Bhagi Katbamna

    Bhagi Katbamna Supporting Actor

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    I don't think the Swan/Diva or any other internet company is stepping brazenly over the line. The problem with any equipment forum is this:
    1. Product A is rumored to be coming.
    2. People either buy product A(or beta test it)
    3. The same people declare product A as good as something costing 3 times as much.
    4. An intense hype builds up which no product can live up to.
    5. A few chinks in the armor of product A are noted.
    6. Product B is rumored.

    There will always be a lot of hype for equipment, it is the nature of things.
     
  19. Keith Mickunas

    Keith Mickunas Cinematographer

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    Having his company name in his sig isn't marketing, its honesty. I don't know much about his company, I don't know the guy's name off the top of my head, so I think its best its in there. Its just like Hal said, if you know he's with the company, you know how to interpret his remarks.

    Its also very good that these guys are in here and contributing to these threads. Sometimes I've seen people provide incorrect information about various products. Are you saying the employees of this company should join in the thread and provide accurate information? If someone asks when the PC+ is shipping, is it advertising if Ron jumps in and provides a date? Where is this line that Mark is crossing all the time? He tries to defend himself and you accuse him of marketing because of his sig? I don't know, but I think that's a bit harsh.

    Oh, and this is a private forum. You're here at the invitation of the owners. They got to set the rules and lure advertising and try and keep thousands of users happy, its a damn near impossible job to keep all those things working together all the time.
     
  20. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
    Moderator

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    I personally cannot agree more with Hal and Keith. Several nails hit right on the head, IMO.

    I'm glad those people openly state their relation to their firms. Anyone can judge for himself how to weigh their contributions, with proper knowledge about that connection.

    Of course the owners of this forum won't allow free advertising next to payed ads - btw, it's fair business practice to properly pay for commercial services rendered, and not just take 'em.

    And this is indeed not a public place, it's a privately owned forum - on which you're all very welcome, provided you live by the rules imposed by the owners.
     

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