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A Question Related to the Recently Released EXORCIST III UHD... (1 Viewer)

Kaskade1309

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Can anyone who has purchased this and watched it already confirm that the DTS-HD Master Audio track (5.1) is actually "remastered" as the marketing materials suggest?

I ask because, as we have discussed in here before, it seems that Scream messed up the 5.1 track on the Collector's Edition Blu-ray from 2016, where surround elements from the remixed Dolby Digital track of Warner's DVD were somehow "crushed down" so that everything sounded like it was coming from the center channel only. Some elements that spread to the front left or right channels on the DVD's audio -- such as the restaurant scene with Scott and Flanders -- were collapsed into the center, rendering the "you are there" effect pretty useless.

Supposedly, Scream was going to "fix" this issue with the 4K release, so I am wondering if anyone had an opportunity to play the disc and compare the audio.
 

Kaskade1309

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Does anyone have any info for me and John about this?

I threw in my Collector's Edition Blu-ray from 2016 last night and watched the first third of the film with the DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 track. While the directionality in scenes like the aforementioned restaurant sequence with Scott and Flanders was restored (as best as possible; you were able to make out the waitress kind of talking from the front left channel), there was an empty hollowness to the mix that was off-putting, likely because my AVR doesn't allow any post-processing on two-channel DTS-HD MA signals -- so the whole soundtrack came out of my front left and right channels in STEREO mode. The dialogue always sounds awful watching films this way, as it creates a comb filtering effect (instead of a phantom center, which it does sometimes), so I switched it over to the 5.1 track after awhile. This immediately presented a jump in clarity and volume levels, though I was again back to listening to the track from mainly the center (because of the way Scream mucked this audio track up).
 

Dave H

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To my understanding, reading on another forum, the audio has been corrected and the 2.0 MA DTS is the original stereo.
 

Kaskade1309

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To my understanding, reading on another forum, the audio has been corrected and the 2.0 MA DTS is the original stereo.
Thanks Dave; appreciate the sentiments of what you were lead to believe, at least.

Do you have any knowledge regarding the "problems" with Scream's Collector's Edition release? I ask because that's the crux of what's being discussed here -- Scream's DTS-HD MA 5.1 track on the first Blu-ray had this issue wherein the directionality of the mix (compared to Warner's DVD edition with the reworked Dolby Digital 5.1 track) seemed compromised. Where certain scenes had certain actors speaking from off-center positions, Warner's DVD track represented this correctly -- a waitress in one sequence with George C. Scott and Ed Flanders in a Georgetown restaurant is heard talking off to the left of the screen, where she is actually standing. Scream's Blu-ray seemed to have crushed this audio down to the center, making the whole soundtrack feel like "glorified mono" throughout the run time.

Is there any way to confirm that this is what was "fixed" on the UHD Blu-ray? Did they restore the directionality of the 5.1 track so that everything isn't confined to the center channel?

Thanks again for your reply.
 

Dave H

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Thanks Dave; appreciate the sentiments of what you were lead to believe, at least.

Do you have any knowledge regarding the "problems" with Scream's Collector's Edition release? I ask because that's the crux of what's being discussed here -- Scream's DTS-HD MA 5.1 track on the first Blu-ray had this issue wherein the directionality of the mix (compared to Warner's DVD edition with the reworked Dolby Digital 5.1 track) seemed compromised. Where certain scenes had certain actors speaking from off-center positions, Warner's DVD track represented this correctly -- a waitress in one sequence with George C. Scott and Ed Flanders in a Georgetown restaurant is heard talking off to the left of the screen, where she is actually standing. Scream's Blu-ray seemed to have crushed this audio down to the center, making the whole soundtrack feel like "glorified mono" throughout the run time.

Is there any way to confirm that this is what was "fixed" on the UHD Blu-ray? Did they restore the directionality of the 5.1 track so that everything isn't confined to the center channel?

Thanks again for your reply.

I believe you pretty much nailed the issue. The Blu-ray audio was never a problem with the overseas Arrow disc. I *think* it's utilizing the same audio tracks.
 

Kaskade1309

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I believe you pretty much nailed the issue. The Blu-ray audio was never a problem with the overseas Arrow disc. I *think* it's utilizing the same audio tracks.
So they did address the issue of the "collapsed" audio and non-directionality in some audio cues?

Are you saying they took the Arrow release's Master Audio track and used it for the Scream 4K version?
 

Felix Martinez

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I have the new 4K disc. For the first time since the laserdisc, this film finally sounds right on home video. Maybe there was an international release with the proper uncompressed 2.0 but I don’t have it. The 4K’s 2.0 track is the gorgeous, immersive, and downright frightening 2.0 /Dolby Stereo / ProLogic experience I have been missing since the early 1990s. I didn’t even bother to check out the 5.1. I’m sure it’s ok. But finally… wow, even i underestimated it. When those church doors blow open during the opening titles, holy smokes…

Oh and it looks fantastic also and slightly darker than the blu, which is a good thing.

Enjoy! Great upgrade!
 
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Kaskade1309

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I have the new 4K disc. For the first time since the laserdisc, this film finally sounds right on home video. Maybe there was an international release with the proper uncompressed 2.0 but I don’t have it. The 4K’s 2.0 track is the gorgeous, immersive, and downright frightening 2.0 /Dolby Stereo / ProLogic experience I have been missing since the early 1990s. I didn’t even bother to check out the 5.1. I’m sure it’s ok. But finally… wow, even i underestimated it. When those church doors blow open during the opening titles, holy smokes…

Oh and it looks fantastic also and slightly darker than the blu, which is a good thing.

Enjoy! Great upgrade!
Thanks for the feedback here, Felix!

When you get a chance, can you check the 5.1 track out for me? I'm just curious if the directionality/glorified mono issues were resolved.

Additionally, with regard to the video transfer -- I really don't have an issue with the "pinker/blue-er/brighter" look of Scream's first Blu, especially coming from the snapper case variant of Warner's DVD, but what you're describing sounds like the situation with Scream's Escape From L.A. release, wherein they made the transfer significantly darker than previous home video incarnations, notably Paramount's own BD; in this case, I much preferred the darker look of the film, and applauded Scream for doing it this way, primarily because it hides the horrendous CGI work better in many sequences.
 
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Felix Martinez

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Thanks for the feedback here, Felix!

When you get a chance, can you check the 5.1 track out for me? I'm just curious if the directionality/glorified mono issues were resolved.

Additionally, with regard to the video transfer -- I really don't have an issue with the "pinker/blue-er/brighter" look of Scream's first Blu, especially coming from the snapper case variant of Warner's DVD, but what you're describing sounds like the situation with Scream's Escape From L.A. release, wherein they made the transfer significantly darker than previous home video incarnations, notably Paramount's own BD; in this case, I much preferred the darker look of the film, and applauded Scream for doing it this way, primarily because it hides the horrendous CGI work better in many sequences.
Sure I’ll check out the 5.1 and circle back.

I still have the laserdisc, had the DVD, and the previous 2 blu-rays.

This 4K release in image and audio exorcises them all 😂 I’ll check on the 5.1, but something tells me you’ll prefer the 2.0 run through Prologic or suitable matrix decoder. It absolutely fills the room and has immense directionality across the front 3 speakers.
 

Kaskade1309

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Sure I’ll check out the 5.1 and circle back.
Appreciate it, brother!
I still have the laserdisc, had the DVD, and the previous 2 blu-rays.

Wow; so, yeah, you've been down a deeper Exorcist III rabbit hole than I have. I didn't buy into the laserdisc format and didn't bother with Warner's standalone Blu-ray because I read that it wasn't much of an improvement over the DVD. That same disc was included in The Exorcist Anthology set, though I'm kicking myself for not buying that box collection (even though I already had the excellent digibook BD of the original plus an absolutely satisfactory widescreen DVD of The Beginning).

Now, it may just be that I'm running a much smaller display than most on a forum like this one at 65 inches, or it's just my set of (admittedly aging) eyes, but I simply don't have any issues with Scream's first Blu release of this title. Sure, I see the pinkish hue to the skin tones that everyone complains about, and I do notice the somewhat hot contrast when the sequences get brighter, but this doesn't bother me. I suspect all the 4K version is going to bring to me, personally, is a brighter HDR pass with some cooked highlights; the resolution delivery alongside raw detail exhibition will probably be a wash for me.
This 4K release in image and audio exorcises them all 😂 I’ll check on the 5.1, but something tells me you’ll prefer the 2.0 run through Prologic or suitable matrix decoder. It absolutely fills the room and has immense directionality across the front 3 speakers.
Interesting that you brought up the two channel audio -- here's the problem I have:

With the current receiver I am running, an old Onkyo TX-SR605 from circa 2007/2008 (it was actually the first consumer-grade AVR on the market to decode the then-new lossless TrueHD and Master Audio formats), bitstreamed two-channel DTS-HD signals from a disc player cannot be matrixed using Pro Logic II or any other formats -- the receiver simply doesn't have the processing horsepower. The only DTS-HD MA tracks that can be played correctly on this unit are those that are in their native 5.1 or higher surround arrangement.

Now, I CAN, of course, play DVDs with Dolby Digital two-channel soundtracks -- whether stereo or mono -- and have these be decoded via Pro Logic II so they're steered to the correct channels for playback (stereo surround for 2.0 stereo tracks and center channel for mono), but this cannot be done with DTS-HD Master Audio soundtracks encoded as two-channel (the only way around this is to go into my player's setup menu and switch the DTS-HD settings to "PCM" instread of "Bitstream" every time I watch a disc with a two-channel DTS-HD MA track, but I just don't want to be bothered).

So, as it stands, when I watch Blu-rays that have 2.0 DTS-HD MA tracks, whether encoded as stereo or mono (and I have a few, including Nighthawks, Tales From the Hood, The Taking of Pelham One Two Three and Ninja III: The Domination, all Scream Factory releases ironically, save for Pelham), I have to play the soundtracks through my AVR in straight STEREO mode, and this creates a weird comb filtering effect when the dialogue kicks in. On paper, I should be getting a phantom center experience from my sweet spot -- and my left/center/right speakers all create an equidistant equilateral triangle to the primary listening seat at 12 feet -- but in reality, this doesn't always happen, especially with the discs that boast a 2.0 mono track. This strange comb filtering phenomenon just sounds downright weird, with dialogue coming from the left and right mains.

Now we get to the Exorcist III debacle, LOL...

Because of the issue I have with the dialogue directionality on Scream's original Blu-ray (running the 5.1 mix), I have experimented with running the 2.0 track on that disc -- and while the directionality kind of comes back to life in two-channel stereo mode on my receiver (thus putting off-screen dialogue where it should be), it STILL doesn't sound right, in general, doing it this way because the whole mix comes from the left and right channels. The last time I watched the disc, a week or so back, I viewed it first with the 2.0 DTS-HD MA track and then the following night switching back to the 5.1 mix. Immediately, the 5.1 track sounded louder, more focused and just better than the two-channel track -- but this was because of my setup, as I have been explaining.

I'm kind of between a rock and hard place with Exorcist III in this way, as I can either view the original Scream Blu-ray with everything seemingly coming from the center channel (with the flawed 5.1 track) or with an odd two-speaker delivery (with the 2.0 mix).

This is, essentially, why I started the thread, as I have been contemplating replacing the Blu with the new 4K just to solve this audio problem. It's kind of a dilemma, as the Collector's Edition Blu wasn't cheap when I bought it.

So I'd love to take you at your word and assume the two-channel mix on the 4K disc is the way to go for this release -- and I do take you at your word, no question -- but as it stands right now, I can't really process two-channel DTS-HD MA signals on my gear. I will eventually upgrade the AVR as some elements of our current Onkyo are starting to fail (namely the HDMI OUT port, so I'm having trouble seeing the onscreen setup menu, which I check from time to time) and because we may, at some point in time, dip our toes into the Atmos pool, and then I'd be able to experiment with the supposed better 2.0 track.
 
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Stephen_J_H

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Appreciate it, brother!


Wow; so, yeah, you've been down a deeper Exorcist III rabbit hole than I have. I didn't buy into the laserdisc format and didn't bother with Warner's standalone Blu-ray because I read that it wasn't much of an improvement over the DVD. That same disc was included in The Exorcist Anthology set, though I'm kicking myself for not buying that box collection (even though I already had the excellent digibook BD of the original plus an absolutely satisfactory widescreen DVD of The Beginning).

Now, it may just be that I'm running a much smaller display than most on a forum like this one at 65 inches, or it's just my set of (admittedly aging) eyes, but I simply don't have any issues with Scream's first Blu release of this title. Sure, I see the pinkish hue to the skin tones that everyone complains about, and I do notice the somewhat hot contrast when the sequences get brighter, but this doesn't bother me. I suspect all the 4K version is going to bring to me, personally, is a brighter HDR pass with some cooked highlights; the resolution delivery alongside raw detail exhibition will probably be a wash for me.

Interesting that you brought up the two channel audio -- here's the problem I have:

With the current receiver I am running, an old Onkyo TX-SR605 from circa 2007/2008 (it was actually the first consumer-grade AVR on the market to decode the then-new lossless TrueHD and Master Audio formats), bitstreamed two-channel DTS-HD signals from a disc player cannot be matrixed using Pro Logic II or any other formats -- the receiver simply doesn't have the processing horsepower. The only DTS-HD MA tracks that can be played correctly on this unit are those that are in their native 5.1 or higher surround arrangement.

Now, I CAN, of course, play DVDs with Dolby Digital two-channel soundtracks -- whether stereo or mono -- and have these be decoded via Pro Logic II so they're steered to the correct channels for playback (stereo surround for 2.0 stereo tracks and center channel for mono), but this cannot be done with DTS-HD Master Audio soundtracks encoded as two-channel (the only way around this is to go into my player's setup menu and switch the DTS-HD settings to "PCM" instread of "Bitstream" every time I watch a disc with a two-channel DTS-HD MA track, but I just don't want to be bothered).

So, as it stands, when I watch Blu-rays that have 2.0 DTS-HD MA tracks, whether encoded as stereo or mono (and I have a few, including Nighthawks, Tales From the Hood, The Taking of Pelham One Two Three and Ninja III: The Domination, all Scream Factory releases ironically, save for Pelham), I have to play the soundtracks through my AVR in straight STEREO mode, and this creates a weird comb filtering effect when the dialogue kicks in. On paper, I should be getting a phantom center experience from my sweet spot -- and my left/center/right speakers all create an equidistant equilateral triangle to the primary listening seat at 12 feet -- but in reality, this doesn't always happen, especially with the discs that boast a 2.0 mono track. This strange comb filtering phenomenon just sounds downright weird, with dialogue coming from the left and right mains.

Now we get to the Exorcist III debacle, LOL...

Because of the issue I have with the dialogue directionality on Scream's original Blu-ray (running the 5.1 mix), I have experimented with running the 2.0 track on that disc -- and while the directionality kind of comes back to life in two-channel stereo mode on my receiver (thus putting off-screen dialogue where it should be), it STILL doesn't sound right, in general, doing it this way because the whole mix comes from the left and right channels. The last time I watched the disc, a week or so back, I viewed it first with the 2.0 DTS-HD MA track and then the following night switching back to the 5.1 mix. Immediately, the 5.1 track sounded louder, more focused and just better than the two-channel track -- but this was because of my setup, as I have been explaining.

I'm kind of between a rock and hard place with Exorcist III in this way, as I can either view the original Scream Blu-ray with everything seemingly coming from the center channel (with the flawed 5.1 track) or with an odd two-speaker delivery (with the 2.0 mix).

This is, essentially, why I started the thread, as I have been contemplating replacing the Blu with the new 4K just to solve this audio problem. It's kind of a dilemma, as the Collector's Edition Blu wasn't cheap when I bought it.
This is why I'm glad for my current Onkyo receiver, even though it's now 4 years old. I can process DTS-HD MA tracks with DTS Neural:X, which can extract the matrixed cntre and surround information.
 

Kaskade1309

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This is why I'm glad for my current Onkyo receiver, even though it's now 4 years old. I can process DTS-HD MA tracks with DTS Neural:X, which can extract the matrixed cntre and surround information.
Indeed, Steve; I wish mine was as new as yours. Unfortunately, my 605 is just too old to do so.

How does it work with newer receivers (like yours up to the current models) when two-channel tracks are processed by matrixing techniques...do you need to set something in the menu to "tell" the unit to always use, say, Neural:X or Dolby Surround when these tracks are detected? If so, do 2.0 mono DTS-HD MA tracks get steered correctly to the center (if told to) and 2.0 stereo DTS-HD MA tracks to the proper channels (center for dialogue and the surrounds for matrixed information)?
 

Stephen_J_H

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Indeed, Steve; I wish mine was as new as yours. Unfortunately, my 605 is just too old to do so.

How does it work with newer receivers (like yours up to the current models) when two-channel tracks are processed by matrixing techniques...do you need to set something in the menu to "tell" the unit to always use, say, Neural:X or Dolby Surround when these tracks are detected? If so, do 2.0 mono DTS-HD MA tracks get steered correctly to the center (if told to) and 2.0 stereo DTS-HD MA tracks to the proper channels (center for dialogue and the surrounds for matrixed information)?
It's like a DSP setting; you can use one of several DSP options, choose direct for straight stereo, or Dolby Surround 5.2.1 [can't call it Atmos if it's not object based in the first place] or DTS Neural:X depending on the encoding of the original track. If it's PCM, you can use either Dolby Surround or DTS Neural:X. Mono tracks do steer nicely to the centre, as there's no matrix track involved.
 

Felix Martinez

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When you get a chance, can you check the 5.1 track out for me? I'm just curious if the directionality/glorified mono issues were resolved.
Okay I sampled the first few minutes through the credits and the 5.1 does seem more satisfying, directional and spacious than the last blu-Ray release (which sounded almost monophonic).

That being said, the 2.0 is about 2db louder, much fuller and has even more room-filling surround.
 

Kaskade1309

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Okay I sampled the first few minutes through the credits and the 5.1 does seem more satisfying, directional and spacious than the last blu-Ray release (which sounded almost monophonic).

That being said, the 2.0 is about 2db louder, much fuller and has even more room-filling surround.
Appreciate it, Felix! Thank you for getting back about it...

Yes -- the 5.1 mix on the first Scream Blu does come across as monophonic; I had been describing it as "glorified mono," as it's difficult to even make out ANY left/right spread into the side channels (let alone any spread to the rear, of which there is none).

When you have another free moment, can you check a specific scene for me running the 5.1 track? It's the one I keep referring to, when Kinderman and Dyer are in the restaurant and the waitress appears at the table, speaking off to the left side of the screen. Her dialogue when she says "Is this okay, Father? I can get you something else...." is supposed to come from the front left speaker (which it did on the DVD). Does it do so on the UHD?
 

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