A possible DIY cylinder sub project (1 Viewer)

[JohnRice]

I'm considering starting a cylinder sub project this year. I'm thinking cylinder because it seems to make the building part easier. I'm just not quite equipped to build a box at this time.

This is where I am aiming and I was hoping our resident DIY sub expert would chime in. My listening room is about 20x25 with fairly low 7.5 foot ceilings. My main speakers are Thiel CS 3.6 with copious power (roughly 600 wpc) available. My priority is maximum extension and "musicality" over outrageous max output. Aside from movies, I listen to a variety of music, from classic and progressive rock to (real) jazz, tons of classical and lots of various metal (goth, symphonic and just plain old metal). For simplicity and flexibility, I figure I will use external amplification, even if I just put a plate amp in some sort of housing.

Housing size is not particularly limited. I just want something moveable. I do not want something that will take over the room. If I get something I really like, I may build a second one. I kind of like the idea of being tunable, like the SVS models. Just for argument, let's say I want something in the performance range of an SVS Ultra Cylinder. So Robert, what general suggestions do you have? What kind of cost am I looking at to be in the neighborhood of the SVS Ultra?

A little aside, I just placed my first order with Parts Express and something has me baffled. I ordered late Wednesday and when I called CS today I was told it shipped Thursday, but the web site says nothing has been sent and there is no tracking info. I'm General Manager of an online retailer and I find this completely remarkable. Do they regularly give no indication at all that an order has been fulfilled? The CS rep was even a little snappy when I said the order indicated it hadn't been fulfilled, and didn't even give me a chance to ask for tracking info. She had the order instantly from caller id, she had the info, but the order history on the site was clueless. Is this normal for them?

 

[JohnRice]

I hate when I get in a hurry and hit the wrong key. "DIT" sub project? Sheesh! That's supposed to be "DIY", of course. Maybe a Mod can fix it.

 

[Robert_J]

Do you like the size of the SVS Ultra cylinder? That is 16" diameter by whatever height. To get into the Ultra ballfield, you will need at least a 13" sub driver and preferably one the is underhung. I recommend at least the Elemental Designs 13" driver. It is a massive sub and will fit in a 16" cylinder. It is difficult to fit a 15" driver into a 16" cylinder so if go with an 18" cylinder then I suggest the larger driver. Not only will you more easily meet the performance of the new Ultra, you can probably beat it with only one cylinder. For those, I recommend the 15" driver from CSS (Canada) or the Exodus Audio Tempest-X from DIY cable. Both use XBL^2 low distortion technology in the motor (patented by Dan Wiggins) and both were designed by Dan himself. I don't think that any of these drivers is over $250-$260.

As for amps, I'd look at something like a plate amp from eD as well. You can also add their EQ.1 parametric EQ/subsonic filter box. That will allow you to change the SSF when you change the tuning. If your budget allows, the Behringer Feedback Destroyer is a great EQ with 7 or 8 memories. Design different response curves based on what you are watching/listening to. That is not required and it a cheap (relatively) upgrade.

Building a cylinder sub takes less tools than a box sub but it does require a router and a circle cutting jig like the Jasper Jig. I'm almost finished with 1 cylinder sub (lacks some sanding and a final coat of paint) for a family member and a pair of SVS Plus series clones for me. In fact, I picked up a pair of older Plus drivers for $30 each. I'm going with the variable tuning at 27, 22 and 17 hz. The amp is a Carver 400w/channel that I picked here in the For Sale section. I also have an SVS variable SSF that I picked up here as well. I've been collecting parts for a year and I'm almost done.

Check out the drivers and amps. Decide on an equipment budget. Find out how much sonotube or the equivalent goes for in your area. Some places sell by the foot while others make you buy a 12' tube.

As for PE, I've never called them. I have also never had an issue with any of my orders going back to the early '90's. I order and it comes.

Finally, PM me a few of the metal bands you listen to. I've been hooked since I got Kiss' Destroyer in the 2nd grade.

-Robert

 

[JohnRice]

Robert, it looks like the Tempest X is not currently available, but should be eventually. I could definitely do an 18" tube. A router and circle jig should be cheap enough items to pick up., or there are people I can borrow a router from. I actually have bits already, which I wouldn't want to borrow.

Hopefully I will get something going with this before the year is out.

 

[Robert_J]

I loaded the CSS 15" into Unibox and ran some sims. The combination of 4 cf sealed and the eD 1,300w amp are very impressive. An estimated 118db of output and a shallow rollow-off. Cubic feet wise, your room is only 10% larger than mine. My sealed sub is flat to 17hz. The CSS design has a better roll-off then my sub so I would expect it to go much deeper in your room.

I know that multiple tuning is a neat idea but it is really for the 1 sub fits all retail world. Since you are getting to do your own design with your own goals, why not build what works for you? Then you won't need multiple tunings.

In an 18" tube, I estimate the actual length of tube to get to that air space is 27". With top and bottom plates, legs and maybe a floor plate like SVS, the overall height of a 4cf sub to be around 36". Not a room dominator at all. If you really want to go nuts, then a sub like Tube-Zilla would be over the top. Pair it with a Behringer EP-2500 amp and a Behringer Feedback Destroyer and you are still below the cost of an Ultra. Output would crush an Ultra. Soundquality should be superior as well. No phase issues with ports. XBL^2 low distortion motors.

-Robert

 

[JohnRice]

Excellent Robert. Thanks. I do like the idea of a sealed chamber, if only because it makes the project easier and I can but a nice hardwood cap on top it I want. I know a woodworker who could do that part, just to make sure it looked as good as possible. I do like the idea of a bottom plate like SVS. Are there performance or other drawbacks to that? It seems like something that could be added at the end of the project.

 

[JohnRice]

BTW, my Thiels are 48" tall, about 12" sq at the base and are 4' out from the front wall, so a 18x36 sub would not take over the room and there is plenty of space behind the Thiels for 1 or 2 subs. Hopefully I will get something going on this project this summer.

 

[Robert_J]

After you have built a sub or two, ported is just as easy to design and build as a sealed. You just cut a couple of extra holes.

I suggested sealed after seeing your list of equipment and guessing at your standards of quality based on years of reading your posts. The base (not bass) plate helps steady the sub. With SVS, it adds weight and lowers the center of gravity. With the sub in the link, it is larger than the diameter of the tube which gives it much more stability. But with that design it is needed. That is a 35 pound driver at the top of a tube! In reading older posts from Tom V, the SVS base plate does add a little bit to the sound of their subs. But I think that room integration and overall design are much more important.

The only thing that tops a good sealed sub is an infinite baffle sub. It's just a sealed sub where the box (or lack of one) has no impact on the sound of the sub. Thomas_W, who built the Tube-Zilla above, also runs the definitive IB site Cult of the Infinitely Baffled. He is all about the quality of both bass and the rest of the audio spectrum. Both he and Ron Stimpson from SVS are Colorado residents. I'm not sure of their locations nor yours but if you guys are close, I would suggest an audition. I have read dozens of postings where these guys open their home to others interested in this hobby. I do the same except there is very little interest in this area.

When you decide to get the project rolling, just revive this thread. There is no telling what new stuff will be out by then.

-Robert

 

[Robert_J]

After you have built a sub or two, ported is just as easy to design and build as a sealed. You just cut a couple of extra holes.

I suggested sealed after seeing your list of equipment and guessing at your standards of quality based on years of reading your posts. The base (not bass) plate helps steady the sub. With SVS, it adds weight and lowers the center of gravity. With the sub in the link, it is larger than the diameter of the tube which gives it much more stability. But with that design it is needed. That is a 35 pound driver at the top of a tube! In reading older posts from Tom V, the SVS base plate does add a little bit to the sound of their subs. But I think that room integration and overall design are much more important.

The only thing that tops a good sealed sub is an infinite baffle sub. It's just a sealed sub where the box (or lack of one) has no impact on the sound of the sub. Thomas_W, who built the Tube-Zilla above, also runs the definitive IB site Cult of the Infinitely Baffled. He is all about the quality of both bass and the rest of the audio spectrum. Both he and Ron Stimpson from SVS are Colorado residents. I'm not sure of their locations nor yours but if you guys are close, I would suggest an audition. I have read dozens of postings where these guys open their home to others interested in this hobby. I do the same except there is very little interest in this area.

When you decide to get the project rolling, just revive this thread. There is no telling what new stuff will be out by then.

-Robert

 

[JohnRice]

Thanks again Robert. I'm in Ft. Collins, in N. Colorado about 30 miles from Wyoming. Ron is in Colorado Springs which is about 150 miles South. I do know him and have been to his (previous) house a couple times.

 

[JohnRice]

If I go with a 15" driver, which seems reasonable, is it much of a benefit to use a 20" tube instead of 18". I will be shorter of course. I'm just wondering if the baffle is easier to make, or if that means it really needs to be thicker.

In general, what is are the results of more and less volume in the chamber?