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Cineman

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I haven’t seen any mention of the music score accompanying these cut or uncut scenes. Wouldn’t Universal have had to make changes in the music so as to avoid any jump cuts or lack of synchronization with the video? They couldn’t have just cut or restored parts of scenes without adjusting the music.

In another thread that touched on this subject, one of the first things I mentioned was a slight but still noticeable glitch in Herrmann's score during the peephole scene, a tell-tale sign that something had been cut right there.

I don't think there is music accompanying the other two edited scenes. For sure not during the bloody hands shots. And during the knife plunging moments, the music has stopped by the time the knife plunges begin.
 

Gary16

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In another thread that touched on this subject, one of the first things I mentioned was a slight but still noticeable glitch in Herrmann's score during the peephole scene, a tell-tale sign that something had been cut right there.

I don't think there is music accompanying the other two edited scenes. For sure not during the bloody hands shots. And during the knife plunging moments, the music has stopped by the time the knife plunges begin.
There is music during the knife plunges right up to the fade out.
 

Cineman

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...
As to why Universal wouldn't have done something, someone there would actually have to be aware, and I'm not sure they've ever done a transfer of the original negative. And then, there's that pesky e-mail they sent to Turbine, clearly stating that what Turbine was releasing WAS the original US theatrical cut of Psycho. So, perhaps now someone knows something.
...

It is possible something else was happening. The edited version master was handy. It was clearly family-friendly enough to have been shown on commercial television so no threat of theme park attraction-related controversy, no threat of much controversy at all. Sales were fine and since so much attention had always been given to the shower scene and, perhaps, the shot of the toilet bowl, as long as neither of those scenes and shots were tampered with and the vast majority of people who saw the original had not sat down to really examine and analyze why those scenes were as disturbing as they were in its original release, why bother introducing problems to address?

And on that count, who was the executive at Universal willing to insist on returning the bra removal shot, the longer shots of bloody hands and those next two knife plunges? What reward would he or she get for putting Universal in an uncomfortable position that, as far as anyone could tell, was not necessary to sell a lot of home video versions and keep the Universal Studios tour buses cruising past the sets?

A possible but imperfect analogy; Hypothetically, the Senate raises the national Age of Consent to 20 in order to appease their religious constituency. Which then causes a few problems with folks looking to hook up sometime after highschool graduation without waiting two more years. So...who is the incoming Senator willing to die on the hill of promoting the Age of Consent be LOWERED back to 18 where it was before? Nobody is going to tackle the now highly charged issue of arguing in favor of lowering the Age of Consent.

So too with the shot of Janet Leigh unhooking and removing her bra, the longer shots of the bloody hands and those two additional knife plunges. If it was a matter of replacing a cut Rogers & Hammerstein song in FLOWER DRUM SONG, then I imagine there would be no problem getting an executive at Universal to argue passionately in favor of it. But more nudity, more blood and more knife plunges in a movie directly related to one of their most iconic family-friendly theme park attractions? Not so much.
 
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Cineman

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There is music during the knife plunges right up to the fade out.

Ah, thanks for the reminder. Then the reason we don't notice a glitch in the music there is because nothing is cut from the middle of a sequence. The music fades out right along with the visual.

In the peephole scene, the music is mostly sustained notes. So it is a very subtle but, imo, still noticeable glitch and jump when the visual returns back to Norman's eye too soon. Seems to me there was actually some sustained musical notes in the background during the bathroom clean up sequence too. But maybe not exactly during the longer shot of the bloody hands that was edited out.
 
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Cineman

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Just received the PSYCHO boxset. Woah! It is massive! Programs , stills, Bates Motel stationary and Do Not Disturb signs and one sheet replicas of the 4 films. The supplements are almost overwhelming ! View attachment 56234

I ordered it last night, too. I cannot read German, but I assume the text states explicitly that this version of PSYCHO is the original, uncut, "as seen in theaters during its initial release" version.

Which is something I have not seen on any other home video package graphic or on any revival theater screening poster since the early 1970s. It used to be mentioned often during those revival theater screenings. Then that claim came to a halt. Regardless of their reasons for not making the original, uncut version widely available if not exclusively available for any theatrical or home video presentation, at least Universal never came right out and claimed something about it that wasn't true in their ads or posters. It was certainly strongly implied and most purchasers would have no reason to question it. But it was never explicitly stated on any home video version that I have seen until now that the product herein is the original, uncut version as seen in its initial theatrical run.
 

Mark B

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PSYCHO_VHS.jpeg
PSYCHO_VHS.jpg



 

TravisR

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No, it means they created a new negative for the "M" version and all subsequent releases. I can't imagine they'd have cut the original negative, but then again, you never know, maybe they did. But you simply want to believe what you believe and that's fine. Those of us, and there are MANY, who saw this originally know these cut shots were in the original release.
Memories from nearly 60 years ago aren't known for their reliability. And if they are, why does it seem like people weren't even aware of the original version until now? Of all of the complaints I see on the internet, I can't believe that Psycho could be edited and there wouldn't be an uprising among movie fans. How could Universal have not released the 'original' theatrical cut if only just to squeeze a little more money out of Psycho before now? Is there any other example of something like this happening with another movie? There's a million less significant and lesser known movies that were edited and they're known but somehow a big hit and endlessly studied movie like Psycho has been unknown until now?

And it's not that I won't budge on my position, it's that I can't see any reasonable explanation to those questions.
 

Colin Jacobson

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Wow, that is a really old VHS/Beta tape of it. Do you know what year that was produced and distributed? And, most important, which version of the scenes in question are on that tape?

I'd be very surprised if it's not the same version we've had on video for decades.

I think the "every scene intact!" blurb meant to differentiate the video release from the hacked-up versions seen on TV...
 

Cineman

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I'd be very surprised if it's not the same version we've had on video for decades.

I think the "every scene intact!" blurb meant to differentiate the video release from the hacked-up versions seen on TV...

I would be surprised about that as well. However, the introduction of video tape movies came so close to the time when Universal began to distribute only the cut version, I always wondered if there wasn't a brief overlap where at least one USA tape of the original uncut version got released into the wild even if inadvertently. In which case, such a video tape would have been copied over and over on subsequent media, the originals sold for hundreds of dollars and it is almost impossible to imagine it would just be sitting on book shelves untapped for the gold in there.

If the blurb on the graphic was intentional and truthful for that particular video tape and if it is the same cut version we've been seeing on home video for decades, then that flies in the face of the letter from Universal sent to the German distributors of the new Blu-ray.

That blurb about it being the uncut version is so strong and pertinent to what had befallen PSYCHO with regard to its various television presentations, one wonders why Universal hasn't made a point of including it somewhere on the box, in the booklets, in the bonus material or anywhere else in the point-of-sale material for every VHS, Beta, Laserdisc, DVD, Blu-ray, Collection Set, etc. they have put out over the years. Unless, of course, they knew that doing so would be false advertising considering the version of the movie they were actually selling at the time.
 
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Mark B

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Wow, that is a really old VHS/Beta tape of it. Do you know what year that was produced and distributed? And, most important, which version of the scenes in question are on that tape?

The photo looks like a reproduction of an early re-release theater poster.
The first time I saw the film, in 1984, was when I rented this version on VHS. It was the version we have been watching all these years on home video. Your post jogged my memory of the "uncut" claim on the slip case.
I find this whole thing very interesting. I've wondered for years, since seeing the 1997 documentary and being confused by the slip vs. bra commentary, what the deal was behind this fascinating deleted bit. And now it has all become clear. As clear as muddy water, that is.
 

Mark B

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The 1979 DiscoVision Laserdisc seems to be the earliest issue on home video. I'm watching a few eBay auctions and will be picking it up before too long. I've been collecting Magnetic Video lasers of late, and they tend to be different masters from what CBS/Fox released a few years later. Will be interesting to see if DiscoVision discs follow suit.
 

Ken Koc

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I ordered it last night, too. I cannot read German, but I assume the text states explicitly that this version of PSYCHO is the original, uncut, "as seen in theaters during its initial release" version.

Which is something I have not seen on any other home video package graphic or on any revival theater screening poster since the early 1970s. It used to be mentioned often during those revival theater screenings. Then that claim came to a halt. Regardless of their reasons for not making the original, uncut version widely available if not exclusively available for any theatrical or home video presentation, at least Universal never came right out and claimed something about it that wasn't true in their ads or posters. It was certainly strongly implied and most purchasers would have no reason to question it. But it was never explicitly stated on any home video version that I have seen until now that the product herein is the original, uncut version as seen in its initial theatrical run.
I watched PSYCHO last night. The uncut version looks great and integrated scenes , seamless. Interestingly there is also an unrestored 4:3 version included ..looks like it is from a tape source and says as it begins..."airline version"...which is the cut version the we have in the US.
 

haineshisway

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Memories from nearly 60 years ago aren't known for their reliability. And if they are, why does it seem like people weren't even aware of the original version until now? Of all of the complaints I see on the internet, I can't believe that Psycho could be edited and there wouldn't be an uprising among movie fans. How could Universal have not released the 'original' theatrical cut if only just to squeeze a little more money out of Psycho before now? Is there any other example of something like this happening with another movie? There's a million less significant and lesser known movies that were edited and they're known but somehow a big hit and endlessly studied movie like Psycho has been unknown until now?

And it's not that I won't budge on my position, it's that I can't see any reasonable explanation to those questions.

Don't think there's much point of carrying on save for the fact that you have repeatedly ignored the e-mail sent by Universal to Turbine saying what they were releasing WAS the original theatrical version of Psycho. Yes, you have managed to ignore that in every single response. It's all good.
 

TravisR

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Don't think there's much point of carrying on save for the fact that you have repeatedly ignored the e-mail sent by Universal to Turbine saying what they were releasing WAS the original theatrical version of Psycho. Yes, you have managed to ignore that in every single response. It's all good.
I've ignored it because the only e-mail I've seen is from a guy who says he saw it 50 years ago. I can show you a ton of people who would swear on their children that they saw the "Biggs scenes" in Star Wars when it was on TV and that absolutely did not happen. It's a long thread so maybe I missed it but feel free to post or repost the Universal e-mail where they specify that this new Blu-ray contains the original cut of the movie and that they've been using an edited version for the last 5 decades.

I'm willing to allow that you may be right but I'm not taking 50 or 60 year old memories as proof.
 

haineshisway

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I've ignored it because the only e-mail I've seen is from a guy who says he saw it 50 years ago. I can show you a ton of people who would swear on their children that they saw the "Biggs scenes" in Star Wars when it was on TV and that absolutely did not happen. It's a long thread so maybe I missed it but feel free to post or repost the Universal e-mail where they specify that this new Blu-ray contains the original cut of the movie and that they've been using an edited version for the last 5 decades.

I'm willing to allow that you may be right but I'm not taking 50 or 60 year old memories as proof.

What are you talking about, seriously? I said someone at UNIVERSAL, you know, the studio that owns the film, wrote Turbine and told them that what they are releasing is the original theatrical version of Psycho. That's not someone relying on memory - that's the STUDIO acknowledging to Turbine. Really, I'm done with talking about this to you because you simply will not see any other viewpoint, and have totally ignored the e-mail in question and then misunderstood it completely.
 

Dick

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It seems likely at some point the cut version must have become Hitchcock’s preferred version or he would have spoken up to have the trims restored.

I might take issue with that, because Hitch seemed like the type who, once he was done with a project and it was released, would simply move forward and not back.
 

Robert Harris

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What are you talking about, seriously? I said someone at UNIVERSAL, you know, the studio that owns the film, wrote Turbine and told them that what they are releasing is the original theatrical version of Psycho. That's not someone relying on memory - that's the STUDIO acknowledging to Turbine. Really, I'm done with talking about this to you because you simply will not see any other viewpoint, and have totally ignored the e-mail in question and then misunderstood it completely.

Agreed.

Numerous times, I've praised the current execs and staff at Universal of getting things correct.

It was Universal that when told of an old video master held in Germany, tracked down the print, from which it had been derived, in Amsterdam, and arranged for the scenes to be shared with Turbine.

It's nice when everything goes well.
 

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