noel aguirre

Supporting Actor
Premium
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
734
Location
New York City
Real Name
noel
Perhaps they just need some "Happy Talk" ;) to make their dreams come true ...
Me no like.
No seriously- the lead in FDS is a Japanese playing a Chinese and an African American running around in Yellowface singing “Chop Suey!”
And most of the songs sound like the lyrics were written by Charlie Chan.
Really?
 
  • Like
Reactions: JohnMor

JohnMor

Producer
Premium
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Messages
5,040
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Real Name
John Moreland
Considering that Juanita Hall's roles in South Pacific and FDS were written for her by the very best I don't understand why you would find her cringeworthy. I think she is pretty wonderful in both films and adds enormously to them. Umeki was Japanese so you cannot watch her either in FDS?
I never said Juanita Hall’s performances were cringeworthy. The concept of cross-racial casting is cringeworthy. Blackface, brownface and yellowface simply do not play as well today as they did in the past.
 

haineshisway

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2011
Messages
4,677
Location
Los Angeles
Real Name
Bruce
But you're all okay with, for example, an African-American playing Billy Bigelow, right, as in the last revival? And Audra playing Lizzie in 110 in the Shade, right? And you're horrified by Yul Brynner in The King and I, right? Only one of the greatest performances in the history of musical theater and film. Right? And where does it end? Are you okay with English actors playing Americans? Are you okay with Americans playing Poles? Are you okay with Catholics playing Jews? Can only lawyers play lawyers? Can only a Roma play Esmeralda now? Because it's no longer about how well you act or sing or how perfect you are for a role, it's only about being absolutely true to the ethnicity? So, a Latinx cannot possibly play ANY ROLE but a Latinx, right?
 

Thomas T

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2001
Messages
4,584
Me no like.
No seriously- the lead in FDS is a Japanese playing a Chinese and an African American running around in Yellowface singing “Chop Suey!”
Memoirs Of A Geisha had a Chinese actress playing a Japanese and I suppose you object to that too. Juanita Hall was not "running around in yellowface" in Flower Drum Song anymore than she was running around in brownface playing a Polynesian in South Pacific.

No doubt you also have objections to:

Jennifer Beals, an African American actress playing a Caucasian in Mrs. Parker And The Vicious Circle
Omar Sharif, an Egyptian playing a Russian in Doctor Zhivago
Claudia Cardinale, an Italian actress playing a Mexican in The Professionals.
Topol, an Israeli actor playing a Greek in For Your Eyes Only
Rita Moreno, a Puerto Rican actress playing an Italian in The Four Seasons
Anthony Quinn, a Mexican Irish actor playing a Greek in Zorba The Greek and The Guns Of Navarone
Irene Papas, a Greek actress playing an Iranian in Into The Night.
George Chakiris, a Greek actor playing a Puerto Rican in West Side Story
Ellen Burstyn, a gentile actress of Irish French ancestry playing a Jew in Requiem For A Dream
Tony Shaloub, a Lebanese actor playing an Italian in Big Night

I could go on ad infinitum but you get the point .....
 
Last edited:

noel aguirre

Supporting Actor
Premium
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
734
Location
New York City
Real Name
noel
Spielberg obviously must object because he's remaking West Side Story as Natalie Wood wasn't Puerto Rican nor George Chakiris and no one spoke Spanish except "A boy like dat who keel your brodduh!".
 
Last edited:

roxy1927

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jul 10, 2018
Messages
225
Real Name
vincent parisi
Hard to watch I would say is pretty much the same thing as cringeworthy. However just using your words I would say her performances are anything but hard to watch. She brings a hard desperate and sometimes licentious nasty edge to Bloody Mary. And in FDS she gives a very warm humorous musical comedy performance. Dick and Oscar knew what they were doing.
 

JohnMor

Producer
Premium
Joined
Mar 6, 2004
Messages
5,040
Location
Los Angeles, CA
Real Name
John Moreland
But you're all okay with, for example, an African-American playing Billy Bigelow, right, as in the last revival? And Audra playing Lizzie in 110 in the Shade, right? And you're horrified by Yul Brynner in The King and I, right? Only one of the greatest performances in the history of musical theater and film. Right? And where does it end? Are you okay with English actors playing Americans? Are you okay with Americans playing Poles? Are you okay with Catholics playing Jews? Can only lawyers play lawyers? Can only a Roma play Esmeralda now? Because it's no longer about how well you act or sing or how perfect you are for a role, it's only about being absolutely true to the ethnicity? So, a Latinx cannot possibly play ANY ROLE but a Latinx, right?
You are comparing races with professions? Seriously? Or even nationalities?

Why shouldn’t an African-American play Billy Bigelow? His race is not pertinent to the piece. Same with Dolly, Mame, Annie, Harold Hill, Prince Charming or most other roles. The roles I referred to, Mr. Yunioshi, Bloody Mary and Madame Liang are specifically certain races, and in the case of the R&H musicals, their races are endemic to the plots and themes of the pieces. They are about the specific experiences OF those races. If it’s just about casting great singers and stars, why didn’t they cast Frank Sinatra and Doris Day in Porgy and Bess? No need to dub then. Just put them in blackface.

The implication that only white performers can be “the best” for any role is specious at best. People are so quick to defend blackface, brownface and yellowface but they never suggest whiteface. Why not cast Nat King Cole in whiteface as Lt. Cable? He would have sung “Younger Than Springtime” sublimely, wouldn’t he? No one would have ever considered such an idea as appropriate. But the opposite still gets defended even in 2019.
 
Last edited:

Thomas T

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2001
Messages
4,584
Spielberg obviously must object because he's remaking West Side Story as Natalie Wood wasn't Puerto Rican nor George Chakiris and no one spoke Spanish except "A boy like dat who keel your brodduh!".
Oh, the same Steven Spielberg who cast and directed Chinese actresses like Gong Li and Michelle Yeoh as Japanese in Memoirs Of A Geisha? The Steven Spielberg that cast Welsh actor John Rhys Davies as an Egyptian in Raiders Of The Lost Ark? The same Steven Spielberg that cast Australian Eric Bana as an Israeli in Munich? That Steven Spielberg? Spielberg is not remaking West Side Story because Natalie Wood and George Chakiris weren't Puerto Rican. He's remaking it because he smells a moneymaker, not for altruistic reasons.
 
Last edited:

PMF

Cinematographer
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2015
Messages
4,310
Real Name
Philip
As long as the spirit and the ideas of a past actor's portrayal was intelligent and aimed for the highest levels of what it was to be in the skin and soul of a character, then I'd say that such contextual moments in time; including its deriving social situation; had its heart and mind in the right place. I have yet to hear from any member of the Asian community - to which I lived within for three years overseas - such complaints concerning "The Last Emperor"; as one of its leading actresses was not Chinese but, rather, of South Korean descent and was born in Rhode Island. Nor, for that matter, were there any known complaints about the director of "The Last Emperor" whom, as we all know, was pure Italian. But speak of Mickey Rooney and "Breakfast at Tiffany's" and that's where the rightfully heated discussions finds its energy and fuel. We go and we grow; and the past is our foundation towards a more enlightened future.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JohnMor

noel aguirre

Supporting Actor
Premium
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
734
Location
New York City
Real Name
noel
Spielberg is not remaking West Side Story because Natalie Wood and George Chakiris weren't Puerto Rican. He's remaking it because he smells a moneymaker, not for altruistic reasons.
BS-if that’s the case then he would be remaking the Sound of Music with Beyoncé.
Besides that- WSS is a registered film classic and won 10 Academy Awards- He’s never directed a musical before and I smell a filmmaker trying to politically correct it.

And then on a whole other level did Ben Hur need to be remade or Psycho??

If any musical is in need of a remake it would be Carousel. And by the way the black Billy Bigelow was magnificent on Broadway.
 
Last edited:

ahollis

Lead Actor
Premium
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
7,823
Location
New Orleans
Real Name
Allen
Personally, I think we have gotten off track on the discussion of Flower Drum Song. To keep this more on FDS Its good that members of the original cast were recruited for the film version, including Miyoshi Umeki as Mei Li, Juanita Hall as Madam Liang and Patrick Adiarte as Wang San. Meanwhile, Jack Soo was elevated from his stage role of Frankie Wing to portray the leading role of Sammy Fong on screen. Soo had understudied the role on Broadway, where it was played by Caucasian Larry Blyden, who himself was an eleventh-hour replacement for Larry Storch. None of these actors were of the ethnicity of their character.
 

Robin9

Producer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
5,471
Real Name
Robin
BS-if that’s the case then he would be remaking the Sound of Music with Beyoncé.
Besides that- WSS is a registered film classic and won 10 Academy Awards- He’s never directed a musical before and I smell a filmmaker trying to politically correct it.

And then on a whole other level did Ben Hur need to be remade or Psycho??

If any musical is in need of a remake it would be Carousel. And by the way the black Billy Bigelow was magnificent on Broadway.
Why would Mr. Spielberg think a new film of The Sound Of Music starring Beyoncé would be a money spinner?
 
  • Like
Reactions: JohnMor

PMF

Cinematographer
Supporter
Joined
May 6, 2015
Messages
4,310
Real Name
Philip
And besides, Beyonce at age 37 is now too old to play Maria; who was 22 years old when she married the 47 year old Captain.:rolleyes:
 
  • Like
Reactions: edelweissflower

Thomas T

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2001
Messages
4,584
BS-if that’s the case then he would be remaking the Sound of Music with Beyoncé ..... I smell a filmmaker trying to politically correct it. And then on a whole other level did Ben Hur need to be remade or Psycho?
Like Madonna, Beyonce has not proved herself at the box office. Dream Girls was a hit but not because of her. It had an ensemble cast and was based on a hit Broadway musical and the film belonged to Jennifer Hudson.The Lion King is a huge hit but again, not because of Beyonce. It would have been a hit with Rihanna or Janet Jackson singing Beyonce's part. Did Ben Hur or Psycho need to be remade? Probably not but I have no objections to remakes on principle. Remake them all I say!

But we can finally agree on one thing. I too smell a filmmaker trying to be politically correct. :)
 

Thomas T

Cinematographer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2001
Messages
4,584
And besides, Beyonce at age 37 is now too old to play Maria; who was 22 years old when she married the 47 year old Captain.:rolleyes:
Taylor Swift would be the right age but I am not advocating a remake of The Sound Of Music with Ms. Swift. :) Nothing against her, she seems quite sweet and though I'd never buy any of her music, when I hear one of her pop concoctions, it doesn't offend my music sensibilities.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PMF

noel aguirre

Supporting Actor
Premium
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
734
Location
New York City
Real Name
noel
Why would Mr. Spielberg think a new film of The Sound Of Music starring Beyoncé would be a money spinner?
Because The Sound of Music was the all time money maker until Star Wars and needs to be remade like West Side Story except now with the number one recording artist currently- Why else?
Taylor Swift would be the right age but I am not advocating a remake of The Sound Of Music with Ms. Swift. :) Nothing against her, she seems quite sweet and though I'd never buy any of her music, when I hear one of her pop concoctions, it doesn't offend my music sensibilities.
You’re right. May I suggest Jackie the Voice of an Angel Evancho instead?
 

Robin9

Producer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
5,471
Real Name
Robin
Because The Sound of Music was the all time money maker until Star Wars and needs to be remade like West Side Story except now with the number one recording artist currently- Why else?
Very few things in this world are absolutely certain, but one of that very few is that The Sound Of Music does not need to be re-made!
 
  • Like
Reactions: ahollis

Robin9

Producer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2006
Messages
5,471
Real Name
Robin
Did Ben Hur or Psycho need to be remade? Probably not but I have no objections to remakes on principle. Remake them all I say!
No, Thomas, no! Remake only that vast majority which were far less than their potential. But never, ever attempt a re-make of that tiny minority of films which were perfect first time around. Do not, in any circumstances re-make The Third Man, North by Northwest, Rio Bravo, Singin' In The Rain etc. etc.
 

Forum Sponsors

Forum statistics

Threads
344,353
Messages
4,707,922
Members
141,241
Latest member
Royce Fox