A former SACD fan comes over to DVD-Audio (1 Viewer)

[Craig_Kg]

I've even heard of an effort to make hybrid discs that have SACD on one side and DVD-Audio on the other side of the same disc.

Aren't the DVD-A forum investgating a CD/DVD-A hybrid to provide backwards compatibility?.

 

[John Kotches]

Craig,

Yes. There are 2 potential solutions.

1) "Flipper" technology, with CD on one side, DVD-Audio on the other. Cheaper to produce, requires no special production lines and has already been done in production with DVD-Plus releases.

2) Hybrid, single side, ala SACD. Sonopress has demonstrated this, but I'm not sure if it infringes on the existing SACD hybrid or not.

My guess, and it is strictly that, is that the Flipper will win out.

Regards,

 

[Michael St. Clair]

If the flipper is truly 100% backwards-compatible, including all PC drives, I'd rather have the flipper anyway.

People deal with it on tons of DVD releases. Heck, the CD of Peter Gabriel's 'UP' is blank on top and you use the red stripe on the hub to tell which side is up. All we need is some kind of standard labeling and it should be great.

 

[Mark_Waldrep]

I just finished writing and article on the DVD-Plus concept for eMedia magazine and in fact, am taking the first replicated products to the AES convention in Amsterdam in a couple of weeks.

The Jim DeJulio Jazz Quintet, which is available from AIX Records as a premium DVD-Audio/Video disc, will be the first of its kind...a CD on one side and a DVD-Audio disc on the other side. There is also a DVD-Video compatible 5.1 Dolby Digital track on the DVD side. Sonopress is preparing the run for us.

The DVD Forum version places both the DVD and CD data on the same side of the disc. Apparently, some DVD players have problems identifying the DVD layer after reading the disc as a CD...thus the "flipper" or DVD-Plus is the choice for AIX Records.

We hope to release as many as 6 DVD-Plus discs by the end of the summer.

John, you mentioned others that may already be in the market. Can you point to a source of information?...my friends at Sonopress are telling me that mine are the first.

 

[John Kotches]

Michael,

It's hard to say 100%, when it's not out yet

I'm not comfortable saying it'll be 100% anyway, that's a seemingly impossible rate. I wouldn't be uncomfortable saying > 98% though.....

Regards,

 

[John Kotches]

Mark,

I'll send you information privately...

Regards,

 

[LanceJ]

To Anybody .........

Regarding the flipper discs:

Reading those skinny rings on dvd-video discs isn't easy--could one of the playing sides be colored (like many CD-R's are) to easily differentiate the two sides?

BTW: Personally, I like the flipper idea much more than the "iffy playability" dual-layer disc idea.

Thanks.

LJ

 

[Mark_Waldrep]

We use two-sided discs almost exclusively and always color code them...my middle-aged eyes can't make out the small print! The blue side up is for the DVD-Audio side and the red side up is the DVD-Video side.

 

[John Kotches]

Mark,

Sure, discriminate against the color blind I can see the mass revolt coming

Glad to hear the DeJulio disc is finally making it to market, as a Flipper hybrid. I realize you're taking samples over to the AES, do you have an estimate on when it'll be available for sale to the public?

Regards,

 

[Lee Scoggins]

The DVD Forum version places both the DVD and CD data on the same side of the disc. Apparently, some DVD players have problems identifying the DVD layer after reading the disc as a CD...thus the "flipper" or DVD-Plus is the choice for AIX Records.

Mark,

Based on my sources at Warner, yours are indeed the first.

If there are reading problems, this is indeed better. I only wonder how convenient that is in a car.

John,

You mentioned that Mike Knapp's remarks about the thread's conversation were posted on Home Theater Talk. I could not find this listed at HTT.

Can you please provide a link? Thanks.

 

[LanceJ]

Colored, like these CD-R's at the bottom of this page.

LJ

 

[Kevin C Brown]

I'm all for quality universal players, but this to me seems like sacrilege:

I've even heard of an effort to make hybrid discs that have SACD on one side and DVD-Audio on the other side of the same disc.

 

[KeithH]

Kevin, ya gotta keep 'em se-pa-rated.

 

[John Kotches]

Lee said:

As the moderator of the Home Theater Talk.com disc forum, I was particularly intrigued by his comments...the gist of which I quote below

Also, unless you have a trunk mounted changer (a fairly small population) what's so difficult about flipping a disc in a car if it's inserted incorrectly?

Regards,

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Also, unless you have a trunk mounted changer

I did not say it was a big problem, but many Lexus owners have glove box changers and no one wants to yank the cartridge out during a drive. I think it would be better to have two layers and let the player search for the right one like SACD has.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

100% compatibility should be considered way more important than some clueless person having to flip a disc now and then. If the discs have some kind of standard color code, any moron will pick up on it in no time.

I haven't heard a single complaint about people having problems playing Peter Gabriel's "Up". Seen the disc?

 

[John Kotches]

Michael,

The term is "grasping for straws".

Regards,

 

[Phil A]

I don't know of many things that are 100% compatible. Any time one is dealing with hardware and software made by different parties, there will almost always be some minor issues at a minimum.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I don't know of many things that are 100% compatible. Any time one is dealing with hardware and software made by different parties, there will almost always be some minor issues at a minimum.

Well I agree to an extent, but where formats or other standards have been less user-friendly, they have usually had long-term problems with consumer adoption.

 

[Phil A]

Lee some manuf. even have disclaimers in their manuals (e.g. Linn on their Moveie Classik and I would not be surprised on their $10,995 Unidisk player being released in a week or so) that if a disc won't play it is not the fault of the player. With patents expired on Redbook, some CDs have problems in some machines. I agree that the consumer wants this and to the extent there are problems, it hurts a particular format. There just always will be some problems when dealing with hardware, software and people. A friend of mine bought a DVD-A and took it home and it had a CD in the case instead of a DVD-A and he had to take it back to Best Buy and do a long explanation of what the format was vs. CD. That is not even a hardware or software issue and is just a pkging. mishap along with poor education of Best Buy employees and the public as well. I've seen example of discs of each hi-rez format that won't play in certain machines. Fortunately these have been isolated. I have a bigger problem with mislabeled discs such as non-hybrids saying they will play in CD players and DVD-As that indicate they have a hi-rez stereo track that do not. I think that causes just as much if not more ill will among consumers and makes them more cautious and hesitant when they buy hi-rez releases.