A Few Words About A few words about…™ To Catch a Thief (redux) – in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Worth]

I direct you to the first post of this thread, where our gracious resident expert has chimed in. Following his discussion should provide you with many answers to your questions.

It doesn't address the 4K digital version, which only appeared on streaming services in the past couple of days.

 

[cda1143]

It doesn't address the 4K digital version, which only appeared on streaming services in the past couple of days.

From all evidence, the 4K digital version is the same master as the new disc. Based upon the very different colours between the new and previous masters, this seems to be a solid conclusion.

The previous iTunes HD stream appears identical to the 2012 disc. I have directly compared the new HD stream to the new 4K stream. Removing HDR to keep the comparison valid, I can see no difference between the 1080 and the 2160, either on my 55" monitor, or my JVC projected 87 inches wide.

The same comparison with the iTunes Rear Window shows noticeable differences.

 

[Mark-P]

From all evidence, the 4K digital version is the same master as the new disc. Based upon the very different colours between the new and previous masters, this seems to be a solid conclusion.

The previous iTunes HD stream appears identical to the 2012 disc. I have directly compared the new HD stream to the new 4K stream. Removing HDR to keep the comparison valid, I can see no difference between the 1080 and the 2160, either on my 55" monitor, or my JVC projected 87 inches wide.

The same comparison with the iTunes Rear Window shows noticeable differences.

Of course the new HD stream is identical to the 4K stream. When iTunes uploads a new master it gets applied to all resolutions! Now either do a comparison between the 2020 Blu-ray and the 4K stream or stop making assessments.

 

[Worth]

I think the question was, does the boost of 4K and HDR make the digital version better than the old blu-ray? To which I'd still say no.

 

[Mark-P]

I think the question was, does the boost of 4K and HDR make the digital version better than the old blu-ray? To which I'd still say no.

I thought the main thing people wanted to know is if any of the issues that plagued the 2020 Blu-ray had been corrected for the new 4K stream.

 

[OliverK]

I think the question was, does the boost of 4K and HDR make the digital version better than the old blu-ray? To which I'd still say no.

Hard to have a boost in real world resolution when the new Blu-ray already is much less detailed than the old Blu-ray - obviously it is not even maxing out the resolution potential of the Blu-ray format. That leaves HDR which may tip the scales if one is a big fan which I am not when it comes to classic movie releases.

 

[OliverK]

I thought the main thing people wanted to know is if any of the issues that plagued the 2020 Blu-ray had been corrected for the new 4K stream.

Actually I wanted to know both

 

[Josh Steinberg]

It’s hard for an issue to be corrected when the people who made the master are satisfied that it looks as it should.

I haven’t seen it. I’m not making a judgment on it. I am saying that Paramount has stated on the record that the master came out the way they wanted it to. Therefore, they don’t consider it defective, meaning they’re not looking to change it.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Of course the new HD stream is identical to the 4K stream. When iTunes uploads a new master it gets applied to all resolutions! Now either do a comparison between the 2020 Blu-ray and the 4K stream or stop making assessments.

I think he meant there's no readily appreciable diff between the new HD stream and 4K stream after accounting for HDR. That should not have been a given if the 4K source master actually had more detail than the new BD (and new HD stream) offers.

IF the 4K stream indeed has no more fine detail than the new HD stream (again outside of HDR), then that's a sad indictment of the master (and this 4K stream). And in that case, nobody should expect it to have any more fine detail than the new (or old) BD either.

_Man_

 

[david hare]

Perhaps somebody could sit Andrea Kalas down and show her Universal's 2018 4K of the VIstavision to Technicolor print Vertigo with HDR and tell her that's how it's done. Of course nobody will and it's all a face saving exercise in corporate bullshit.

 

[cda1143]

Of course the new HD stream is identical to the 4K stream. When iTunes uploads a new master it gets applied to all resolutions! Now either do a comparison between the 2020 Blu-ray and the 4K stream or stop making assessments.

Excuse me. My comparison was posted in the iTunes thread, where I follow your very useful information faithfully.

from that thread:

Yeah, I‘m not seeing the apparent abomination everyone was talking about with the new Blu-ray. Is it possible that the reason it took so long to get updated at the digital retailers, is that Paramount actually fixed whatever went wrong with the Blu-ray? I think when the 4K HDR kicks in it will be even better.

Thank you so much guys. Looking forward to your further opinions on this one.

I agree wholeheartedly about the color. I much prefer this master for color; but unfortunately Paramount has not fixed what went wrong. After only a few minutes of back to back with the former blu-ray, I can easily see the abomination everyone was talking about. Compared to the former transfer, this one is shockingly devoid of detail.

...
Viewed on it's own, it doesn't look that bad. Many people, especially those with smaller displays will be perfectly happy. I think the color is absolutely superb; but the amount of detail that has been scrubbed from this transfer is unforgivable. I have no idea what Paramount is thinking.

Very disappointing

Rather than reposting my amateur comparison, I thought the best answer to Oliver's inquiry can be found in RAH's expert opinion - the first post of this thread, so I directed him there. As the new iTunes 4K is the same master as the new blu-ray, and as you say: "the new HD stream is identical to the 4K stream", I think Mr. Harris's opinions on the two blu-rays apply directly to this question.

Chris

 

[cda1143]

I think he meant there's no readily appreciable diff between the new HD stream and 4K stream after accounting for HDR. That should not have been a given if the 4K source master actually had more detail than the new BD (and new HD stream) offers.

IF the 4K stream indeed has no more fine detail than the new HD stream (again outside of HDR), then that's a sad indictment of the master (and this 4K stream). And in that case, nobody should expect it to have any more fine detail than the new (or old) BD either.

_Man_

Thank you.

Chris

 

[Mark-P]

Excuse me. My comparison was posted in the iTunes thread, where I follow your very useful information faithfully.

from that thread:







Rather than reposting my amateur comparison, I thought the best answer to Oliver's inquiry can be found in RAH's expert opinion - the first post of this thread, so I directed him there. As the new iTunes 4K is the same master as the new blu-ray, and as you say: "the new HD stream is identical to the 4K stream", I think Mr. Harris's opinions on the two blu-rays apply directly to this question.

Chris

Boy is my face red. I read your post completely out of context, and thought the only comparison you had made was the same iTunes master set at 2 different resolutions and that that somehow proved that the new Blu-ray matched the new iTunes master. Mea culpa.

 

[Ray H]

The 4K iTunes version looks fine to me. It's still overly noise reduced and detail can get a bit thin, meaning there's very little for my eyes to latch onto. But it's very clean and bright. Colors are a bit more blue/teal. There is the occasional shot where the DNR is quite ghastly, but it's generally okay overall. I would've preferred a more film-like look though, and I would hope a 4K physical release might retain some of the film detail.

Comparing it to the 2020 Blu-ray, I think the 4K version looks a bit more consistent, but very similar overall. But on the 4K digital version, I'm also noticing some slight pixelly edges/aliasing around some edges, notably on the Vistavision logo at the top of the movie. Maybe an issue with scaling.

Comparing it to the older Blu-ray, it's a very different look. That disc was not without it's problems, but had an edgier, sharper look with a darker, brownish tone.

 

[OliverK]

The 4K iTunes version looks fine to me. It's still overly noise reduced and detail can get a bit thin, meaning there's very little for my eyes to latch onto. But it's very clean and bright. Colors are a bit more blue/teal. There is the occasional shot where the DNR is quite ghastly, but it's generally okay overall. I would've preferred a more film-like look though, and I would hope a 4K physical release might retain some of the film detail.

Comparing it to the 2020 Blu-ray, I think the 4K version looks a bit more consistent, but very similar overall. But on the 4K digital version, I'm also noticing some slight pixelly edges/aliasing around some edges, notably on the Vistavision logo at the top of the movie. Maybe an issue with scaling.

Comparing it to the older Blu-ray, it's a very different look. That disc was not without it's problems, but had an edgier, sharper look with a darker, brownish tone.

The old Blu-ray wasn't perfect but it looked like film and in most setups with a gamma adjustment the slight overall darkness can be dealt with quite easily. The sharpening was not ideal but it came with a lot of detail and made this a very watchable disc especially with all sharpness in the signal chain set to zero. On the other hand with the new version I have yet to find the adjustments that will allow me to recover detail and film grain so I am VERY happy that I got my old 2012 Blu-ray.

 

[willyTass]

Kallas.... I can’t even say her name

 

[cda1143]

Boy is my face red. I read your post completely out of context, and thought the only comparison you had made was the same iTunes master set at 2 different resolutions and that that somehow proved that the new Blu-ray matched the new iTunes master. Mea culpa.

No worries Mark. Much obliged for all your contributions.

 

[AlexNH]

I was thinking of checking out the digital UDH but $17 bucks seems like a lot for a download only purchase. Anyone agree?

 

[Neil S. Bulk]

I was thinking of checking out the digital UDH but $17 bucks seems like a lot for a download only purchase. Anyone agree?

It frequently goes on sale for $4.99 at iTunes.

 

[Ray H]

It frequently goes on sale for $4.99 at iTunes.

I bought it on iTunes a few weeks back for $4.99 myself in anticipation of the 4K upgrade.