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Robert Harris

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Is what the filmmakers originally wanted? I presume the blu ray doesn’t look like this?
It was the style at the time, as predicated by Technicolor. Later releases looked like the Blu-ray. Most modern viewers would prefer the later look.

Could have been produced as a two disc set, but that gets expensive for a tiny audience.
 

TJPC

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My understanding is that the people from Technicolor insisted on being on the set and approving all colour because they wanted to show off and present their system in the best possible way. My mother, who would have been 100 last year, used to talk about going to these movies in first run, and getting a head ache after because the colour was so bright.
 

richardburton84

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It's available as a beautiful re-recording:



6 suites that total 65 minutes, conducted by Carl Davis.


A very fine recording to be sure, though it’s a shame that there are no legal releases of Korngold’s original recording (the tapes do exist). While Maestro Davis did a fine job with the recording, there’s something about the original recordings under Korngold’s baton that just can’t be replicated (as evidenced with FSM’s sadly OOP release of Kings Row and The Sea Wolf, plus the isolated score track included with The Adventures of Robin Hood).
 

Joel Arndt

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It was the style at the time, as predicated by Technicolor. Later releases looked like the Blu-ray. Most modern viewers would prefer the later look.

Could have been produced as a two disc set, but that gets expensive for a tiny audience.
Just watched again last night and I'm with the modern viewers. This looks magnificent! And that score by Korngold. Wow!
 

OLDTIMER

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Thanks Mr Harris for the great scans of the film frames. Although we've had this discussion before, it should be pointed out that the yellow appearance of the color is somewhat negated by the high color temperature (bluishness) of the carbon arc projection used at the time.
 

Robert Harris

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Would it be safe to assume that the two dots after KODAK and or the lack of the words "SAFETY FILM" are a strong indicator the print was nitrate?
The two dots are the stock date code - 1939. The shape of the perfs and the clarity of the base tell you that it’s nitrate. The words nitrate or safety will appear in longer lenghs - I don’t recall offhand, but probably every 16 or 24 frames.

When the word SAFETY appears, a tiny dot placed between different letters denotes the country of production for the stock.
 

Trancas

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I would bet that these were scanned at the correct color temp.
Hmmm. This is from an article written by guest, Ms. Flueckiger: http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2...colors-a-guest-entry-from-barbara-flueckiger/

Matador.jpeg


Wow those skin tones sure look yellow. But it's an Almodovar movie - he likes dramatic color so.....


This is a screenshot from the official trailer that has shots from that same scene (complete with sandwich):

Screen Shot 2021-07-10 at 7.47.23 PM copy.jpg


Look at the clip at 1:28



How about Gattaca?
Gattaca.jpeg


Unfortunately I can't find the same image online. Gattaca's color scheme seems to be all over the place - but I don't know about that glowing yellow-green.
350_5_1080p.jpeg

350_6_1080p.jpeg


Here's her set up. A dslr on a tripod with a macro lens and a masked off lightbox tethered to an older (is that an uncalibrated 8-bit panel?) Macbook:
Camera_Setup_AFA2015_IMG_3723-copy-sized.jpeg


When your software has brilliant aqua panels everywhere - doesn't that make it harder to color correct images?
 
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Trancas

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Since the color accuracy of Ms. Flueckiger's scans of more recent commercial films is peculiar, can we believe the coloring on the old Technicolor scans that she has on her website - the ones we've seen and discussed on this thread and others. Are they truly representative of how Technicolor looked from the 30's thru the 50's when projected?
https://filmcolors.org/timeline-entry/1301/

I think the odd urine-like coloring on Uma in Gattaca above, lines up very well with Bette on the throne here. On thinking further, perhaps Ms. Flueckiger consults at L'Immagine Ritrovata - after all Switzerland isn't very far from Bologna, and IR's 4k restorations of color films from the 60's have that same heavy golden glow.

UCLA_M103320_PrivateLivesOfElizabethAndEssex_1939_TechnicolorIV_R1_BF_IMG_0442.jpeg

UCLA_M103320_PrivateLivesOfElizabethAndEssex_1939_TechnicolorIV_R2_BF_IMG_0443.jpeg


I find it hard to believe that 14 years after Elizabeth and Essex, a playful film like Gentleman Prefer Blondes would still be saddled with yellow brown skin tones when printed by Technicolor. Or do we put it down to an odd color bias when scanning?

GentlemenPreferBlondes_88.jpg

LOC_FGA4239_GentlemenPreferBlondes_Reel6_Technicolor_HDR_IMG_0859.jpeg
 

Robert Harris

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Since the color accuracy of Ms. Flueckiger's scans of more recent commercial films is peculiar, can we believe the coloring on the old Technicolor scans that she has on her website - the ones we've seen and discussed on this thread and others. Are they truly representative of how Technicolor looked from the 30's thru the 50's when projected?
https://filmcolors.org/timeline-entry/1301/

I think the odd urine-like coloring on Uma in Gattaca above, lines up very well with Bette on the throne here. On thinking further, perhaps Ms. Flueckiger consults at L'Immagine Ritrovata - after all Switzerland isn't very far from Bologna, and IR's 4k restorations of color films from the 60's have that same heavy golden glow.

View attachment 103298
View attachment 103299

I find it hard to believe that 14 years after Elizabeth and Essex, a playful film like Gentleman Prefer Blondes would still be saddled with yellow brown skin tones when printed by Technicolor. Or do we put it down to an odd color bias when scanning?

View attachment 103302
View attachment 103301
I can’t speak to the direct positive samples, but with the majority - especially nitrate era DT, I’m not seeing a problem. Don’t look at the colors, Look at the silver and white - neutrals. Aeons ago I had an orig print of Nothing Sacred which should now be with MOMA, and that fits these examples nicely.

Bottom line, and projection light source (carbon rod vs xenon et al) aside, what I’m seeing on a computer screen, are reasonable approximations of general comparison for discussion, allowing a very good representation of what the DT films look like.

As to the last examples of Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, the images appear a bit hot. They are not reference prints, and one is a later re-issue.

Look at each example and delve further into what you’re seeing. If one examines Oz, some examples appear hot, and I’m unable to speak to this. There’s quite a bit of manipulation occurring between the image harvests, whatever correction may be used and final posting to a website in compressed form.

But in a general sense, if the intent is to somehow communicate what original nitrate DT prints looked like in 1939, we’re in a good place.

I’ll post (for further enjoyment) an example of the chart seen taped to the cutting bench shortly.
 
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RobertMG

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I can’t speak to the direct positive samples, but with the majority - especially nitrate era DT, I’m not seeing a problem. Don’t look at the colors, Look at the silver and white - neutrals. Aeons ago I had an orig print of Nothing Sacred which should now be with MOMA, and that fits these examples nicely.

Bottom line, and projection light source (carbon rod vs xenon et al) aside, what I’m seeing on a computer screen, are reasonable approximations of general comparison for discussion, allowing a very good representation of what the DT films look like.

As to the last examples of Gentlemen Prefer Blondes, the images appear a bit hot. They are not reference prints, and one is a later re-issue.

Look at each example and delve further into what you’re seeing. If one examines Oz, some examples appear hot, and I’m unable to speak to this. There’s quite a bit of manipulation occurring between the image harvests, whatever correction may be used and final posting to a website in compressed form.

But in a general sense, if the intent is to somehow communicate what original nitrate DT prints looked like in 1939, we’re in a good place.

I’ll post (for further enjoyment) an example of the chart seen taped to the cutting bench shortly.

A heck of a lot of frames from The Rogue Song from a print in Prague but this era two color Technicolor https://filmcolors.org/galleries/the_rogue_song_1930/?_sft_ubercategory=1930s#/image/4670 looks like the same muted color of the frames from The Private Lives Of Elizabeth and Essex
1626008363783.png
1626008539361.png
 

Robert Harris

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