What's new

Worth

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
5,230
Real Name
Nick Dobbs
...Why are screensavers of any kind even deemed necessary in 2016? Can't flat-screens of all different kinds (LCD; LED; Plasma; et al!) handle having the same image displayed for hours on end without the dreaded image burn that used to be a serious issue with the old CRT Televisions?

Everything can suffer from burn-in. While less of an issue than it once was with CRT, especially rear-projection CRT, Plasma and OLED are still susceptible to permanent ghost images from uneven wear. LCD doesn't behave the same way, but it's possible to get permanently "stuck" pixels by displaying fixed images for too long.
 

Randy Korstick

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 24, 2000
Messages
5,839
Warner Archive recently released another set of Wheeler and Woolsey and the two 1930 films in the set: The Cuckoos and Dixiana were both presented 1.20:1 which surprised me but appears to be correct. The other later films were all 1.37:1
So was was 1931 the change over year for 1.37:1 from 1.20:1? I have read that most of the silent fims were also 1.20:1 so that appears to have been the standard ratio pre 1931.
 

Tony Bensley

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
7,306
Location
Somewhere in Canada
Real Name
Anthony
Everything can suffer from burn-in. While less of an issue than it once was with CRT, especially rear-projection CRT, Plasma and OLED are still susceptible to permanent ghost images from uneven wear. LCD doesn't behave the same way, but it's possible to get permanently "stuck" pixels by displaying fixed images for too long.
Flat screen TVs generally have a screensaver feature, in any case. There's no need for Studios to add them to their Home Video releases, in my opinion! I just find these an unnecessary, valueless annoyance! If pressing any button would allow to resume function (You know, like with any OTHER screensaver setup on the planet!), I'd be OK with it, but of course, it couldn't be THAT simple! :rolleyes:

Besides the above, I can't just stop and resume with my Leawo Blu-ray player in order to avoid the screensaver either, which is extra annoying! :P

First world problems, I know!

CHEERS! :)
 

B-ROLL

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 26, 2016
Messages
4,977
Real Name
Bryan
Flat screen TVs generally have a screensaver feature, in any case. There's no need for Studios to add them to their Home Video releases, in my opinion! I just find these an unnecessary, valueless annoyance! If pressing any button would allow to resume function (You know, like with any OTHER screensaver setup on the planet!), I'd be OK with it, but of course, it couldn't be THAT simple! :rolleyes:

Besides the above, I can't just stop and resume with my Leawo Blu-ray player in order to avoid the screensaver either, which is extra annoying! :P

First world problems, I know!

CHEERS! :)
The screensaver feature can be disabled on most TVs ... The studios are trying to cover themselves from Joe Twelve pack suing because his wife left him because the menu for the Swinging Cheerleaders is burned into his display ...
 

Tony Bensley

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
7,306
Location
Somewhere in Canada
Real Name
Anthony
The screensaver feature can be disabled on most TVs ... The studios are trying to cover themselves from Joe Twelve pack suing because his wife left him because the menu for the Swinging Cheerleaders is burned into his display ...
I'm not entirely convinced it's that big an issue, but your comment cracked me up, LOL! :rolling-smiley::laugh:

CHEERS! :)
 

J. Casey

Second Unit
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
428
Location
USA
Real Name
Jason
Warner Archive recently released another set of Wheeler and Woolsey and the two 1930 films in the set: The Cuckoos and Dixiana were both presented 1.20:1 which surprised me but appears to be correct. The other later films were all 1.37:1
So was was 1931 the change over year for 1.37:1 from 1.20:1? I have read that most of the silent fims were also 1.20:1 so that appears to have been the standard ratio pre 1931.

I'm far from an expert, but I think the narrower ARs in early talkies were due to the manner in which optical soundtracks were added in those days. Vitaphone films were not affected as they used sound on disc, leaving the full frame free for the image. Others with more knowledge will chime in....
 
Last edited:

Ronald Epstein

Founder
Owner
Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
66,561
Real Name
Ronald Epstein
Getting back to The Marx Brothers....

I just opened this set the other day and started watching my first movie, Horsefeathers.

I was not particularly happy with what has been done with that title and I'd like some feedback from Mr. Harris.

As all of you who have seen this transfer can relate, the picture shakes uncontrollably for a good 5 minutes or more near the start of the film.

I am no restorationist. It's impossible for me to make an argument with someone who is an expert in that field....

However, it doesn't make sense to me that something like that couldn't have been fixed.

First of all, that problem never existed on any of the previous VHS or DVD releases as far as I can remember.

Couldn't the studio have used an older master in those scenes that didn't have the shaking problem? They could have then fixed any scratches/dirt/etc. that existed in that print. Personally, I would rather have a less than stellar looking scene than one that shakes up and down.

Secondly, isn't there a tool in the computer software to control shaking? Even iMovie on my Mac has some sort of image stabilization tool.

It really looks bad. As I said, I have never seen this anomaly on any previous version of Horsefeathers.

The film really is a mess during the scene inside Thelma Todd's apartment where the boys are coming in and out of the doors. Lots of cuts in dialogue that, again, I don't remember being missing in the earlier versions.

I know these prints have been through hell. I am just wondering why Universal couldn't mix and match some of these prints to deal with image stabilization and cut dialogue issues.
 

Robert Harris

Archivist
Reviewer
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Feb 8, 1999
Messages
18,312
Real Name
Robert Harris
Getting back to The Marx Brothers....

I just opened this set the other day and started watching my first movie, Horsefeathers.

I was not particularly happy with what has been done with that title and I'd like some feedback from Mr. Harris.

As all of you who have seen this transfer can relate, the picture shakes uncontrollably for a good 5 minutes or more near the start of the film.

I am no restorationist. It's impossible for me to make an argument with someone who is an expert in that field....

However, it doesn't make sense to me that something like that couldn't have been fixed.

First of all, that problem never existed on any of the previous VHS or DVD releases as far as I can remember.

Couldn't the studio have used an older master in those scenes that didn't have the shaking problem? They could have then fixed any scratches/dirt/etc. that existed in that print. Personally, I would rather have a less than stellar looking scene than one that shakes up and down.

Secondly, isn't there a tool in the computer software to control shaking? Even iMovie on my Mac has some sort of image stabilization tool.

It really looks bad. As I said, I have never seen this anomaly on any previous version of Horsefeathers.

The film really is a mess during the scene inside Thelma Todd's apartment where the boys are coming in and out of the doors. Lots of cuts in dialogue that, again, I don't remember being missing in the earlier versions.

I know these prints have been through hell. I am just wondering why Universal couldn't mix and match some of these prints to deal with image stabilization and cut dialogue issues.

The stabilization tool locks each shot to a specific position, moving each frame wherever it needs to be.

Viewing a an unmatted stabilized frame might be instructive, as the shot mustbthen be cropped on each axis, sometimes losing huge amounts of the image. I'll see if I can come up with an example to post.
 

Ronald Epstein

Founder
Owner
Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
66,561
Real Name
Ronald Epstein
RAH,

Thanks.

Even if they couldn't stabilize the shot, wouldn't it have been better to go with another print for those scenes and just do the additional needed cleanup?
 

TJPC

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2016
Messages
4,820
Location
Hamilton Ontario
Real Name
Terry Carroll
Getting back to The Marx Brothers....

I just opened this set the other day and started watching my first movie, Horsefeathers.

I was not particularly happy with what has been done with that title and I'd like some feedback from Mr. Harris.

As all of you who have seen this transfer can relate, the picture shakes uncontrollably for a good 5 minutes or more near the start of the film.

I am no restorationist. It's impossible for me to make an argument with someone who is an expert in that field....

However, it doesn't make sense to me that something like that couldn't have been fixed.

First of all, that problem never existed on any of the previous VHS or DVD releases as far as I can remember.

Couldn't the studio have used an older master in those scenes that didn't have the shaking problem? They could have then fixed any scratches/dirt/etc. that existed in that print. Personally, I would rather have a less than stellar looking scene than one that shakes up and down.

Secondly, isn't there a tool in the computer software to control shaking? Even iMovie on my Mac has some sort of image stabilization tool.

It really looks bad. As I said, I have never seen this anomaly on any previous version of Horsefeathers.

The film really is a mess during the scene inside Thelma Todd's apartment where the boys are coming in and out of the doors. Lots of cuts in dialogue that, again, I don't remember being missing in the earlier versions.

I know these prints have been through hell. I am just wondering why Universal couldn't mix and match some of these prints to deal with image stabilization and cut dialogue issues.

I don't know about the shaking at the beginning, since I am still watching the first disc in the set, but my understanding of the Thelma Todd scenes comes from discussions all over the Internet.
It is very well known that this scene was in this state since the mid-1930s when the production code was enforced and the movie was re-released after being cut to conform to censorship rules.
Apparently Universal did a world wide search and appealed to collectors, but the footage doesn't exist in its original form.
If you have seen the uncut version, you are the only one since around 1936 who has and Universal will be VERY interested in talking to you!
 

Ronald Epstein

Founder
Owner
Moderator
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jul 3, 1997
Messages
66,561
Real Name
Ronald Epstein
Universal wouldn't be interested in talking with me.

Get back to us after you have seen this new Horsefeathers transfer.

That shaking, as far as I remember, was never on the DVD or previous releases.

There may be a margin of error here, but I am pretty confident in what I remember.
 

TonyD

Who do we think I am?
Ambassador
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 1, 1999
Messages
24,249
Location
Gulf Coast
Real Name
Tony D.
Hmm I still have all the dvds if I have a chance Saturday I'll check.
 

bigshot

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2008
Messages
2,933
Real Name
Stephen
Horsefeathers has always been a mess. It was cut long ago and the missing bits made it really choppy, especially the paperhangers scene. I was hoping they would find a better element, but apparently one doesn't exist. Animal Crackers looks great though, and the non dupey bits of Cocoanuts are a revelation. Unfortunately, these films weren't babied.
 

Doug Otte

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jun 20, 2003
Messages
860
Getting back to The Marx Brothers....

I just opened this set the other day and started watching my first movie, Horsefeathers.

I was not particularly happy with what has been done with that title and I'd like some feedback from Mr. Harris.

As all of you who have seen this transfer can relate, the picture shakes uncontrollably for a good 5 minutes or more near the start of the film.

I am no restorationist. It's impossible for me to make an argument with someone who is an expert in that field....

However, it doesn't make sense to me that something like that couldn't have been fixed.

First of all, that problem never existed on any of the previous VHS or DVD releases as far as I can remember.

Couldn't the studio have used an older master in those scenes that didn't have the shaking problem? They could have then fixed any scratches/dirt/etc. that existed in that print. Personally, I would rather have a less than stellar looking scene than one that shakes up and down.

Secondly, isn't there a tool in the computer software to control shaking? Even iMovie on my Mac has some sort of image stabilization tool.

It really looks bad. As I said, I have never seen this anomaly on any previous version of Horsefeathers.

The film really is a mess during the scene inside Thelma Todd's apartment where the boys are coming in and out of the doors. Lots of cuts in dialogue that, again, I don't remember being missing in the earlier versions.

I know these prints have been through hell. I am just wondering why Universal couldn't mix and match some of these prints to deal with image stabilization and cut dialogue issues.

Hi Ron. I watched Horsefeathers last night (other than that, I've only watched Monkey Business thus far). I noticed the shaking, too, but I can't remember if it was there in previous editions. I donated the DVD set as soon as I ordered the blu-ray set, so I can't compare.

However, I do remember all the cuts in Thelma's apartment scene from the DVD edition. They've never found a cleaner copy of that scene.

One other thing I noticed, that I didn't during Monkey Business: the image seems much more "digital" in some scenes, by which I mean the grain seems to be hard and edgy. I'm guessing the software had problem resolving the grain due to the shaking, but I'll let expert weigh in on that.
 

Robert Crawford

Crawdaddy
Moderator
Patron
Senior HTF Member
Joined
Dec 9, 1998
Messages
67,604
Location
Michigan
Real Name
Robert
Getting back to The Marx Brothers....

I just opened this set the other day and started watching my first movie, Horsefeathers.

I was not particularly happy with what has been done with that title and I'd like some feedback from Mr. Harris.

As all of you who have seen this transfer can relate, the picture shakes uncontrollably for a good 5 minutes or more near the start of the film.

I am no restorationist. It's impossible for me to make an argument with someone who is an expert in that field....

However, it doesn't make sense to me that something like that couldn't have been fixed.

First of all, that problem never existed on any of the previous VHS or DVD releases as far as I can remember.

Couldn't the studio have used an older master in those scenes that didn't have the shaking problem? They could have then fixed any scratches/dirt/etc. that existed in that print. Personally, I would rather have a less than stellar looking scene than one that shakes up and down.

Secondly, isn't there a tool in the computer software to control shaking? Even iMovie on my Mac has some sort of image stabilization tool.

It really looks bad. As I said, I have never seen this anomaly on any previous version of Horsefeathers.

The film really is a mess during the scene inside Thelma Todd's apartment where the boys are coming in and out of the doors. Lots of cuts in dialogue that, again, I don't remember being missing in the earlier versions.

I know these prints have been through hell. I am just wondering why Universal couldn't mix and match some of these prints to deal with image stabilization and cut dialogue issues.
Ron,

I just compared the 11-09-04 DVD Release of Horse Feathers to this BD Release and I don't see the Blu-ray having picture shakes like you described here. However, I did notice such shaking during the opening credits on the DVD Release.

As to the Thelma Todd apartment sequence, both discs have the same jump cuts.
 
Last edited:

BobO'Link

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 3, 2008
Messages
11,450
Location
Mid-South
Real Name
Howie
This is back in stock at Barnes and Noble @ $40.90 and the coupon code F7V8H7U for 20% off (Thanks David!) is still valid. I just placed a order after cancelling my Amazon one (which was ~$42.25) with a final total of $35.50 (free shipping + tax).
 

Nick*Z

Screenwriter
Joined
Apr 30, 2003
Messages
1,802
Location
Canada
Real Name
NICK
Dear Ron:

The PQ on Horse Feathers suffers from considerable shrinkage and instability. It always has, the scene where Harpo eludes the cop and lock him in the dog catcher's wagon is a mess; jittery and flawed as, alas, we are told it will always remain so. I don't know about this. I think something more could have - and should have been done. Being no expert, I don't know much about image stabilization. But this is practically unwatchable and for obvious reasons it breaks my heart to see it looking so poorly on Blu-ray. To a far less degree I see the same anomalies cropping up on Monkey Business and Duck Soup; hints of what appear to be edge enhancement, but I now suspect the same issue with shrinkage. Anyway, we knew this set was not going to be perfect. It isn't. We have to live with it. I'm having trouble living with it. But I don't have the luxury of hindsight or being an insider at Uni to have gone through the discussion phase of what's to be done and how to do it. Bottom line: despite what some have suggested herein, there's nothing wrong with your eyes, your TV or your Blu-ray player. It's the disc. Is it the mastering of the disc? Hmmmm.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest Articles

Forum statistics

Threads
356,815
Messages
5,123,810
Members
144,184
Latest member
H-508
Recent bookmarks
0
Top