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A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (Domestic release) -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

Robert Crawford

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Moshrom said:
This certainly *has* been subjected to a moderate amount of DNR, but it is arguably the best version available. There are two DVDs, and the newer one appears to have been derived from the same master/source as the blu-ray (which I'm assuming is identical to its European counterpart). There's a sizable improvement in stability, but the old DVD looks more organic and has more 'depth' to it, despite its myriad of other issues.


Once you notice the DNR on the blu-ray, though, it's rather difficult to unsee it:

http://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=1194&d2=1193&s1=11445&s2=11437&i=0&l=0

Look at his face, especially. The lines, the shadow beneath the brim of his hat, his nose. They have a blotchy quality to them.


And here:

http://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=1194&d2=1193&s1=11448&s2=11440&i=3&l=0

The details of his suit (again, the lines), and look at the wood on the floor in the corner. The light mounted on the wall, too.


The DVD in these caps-a-holic comparisons is the newer one, so it has the same problems (albeit much less noticeably due to the resolution).


The old DVD can be seen here: new, old. It's quite different.


Nit-picking this may seem, but it is quite evident in motion depending on your sensitivity to these sort of things. Rising smoke, in particular, looks much better on the old DVD.


So while this may certainly be watchable and may possibly be the overall best available version of the film at the moment, it's very far from perfect. When this is inevitably restored (it's Ford and among his best works, so it certainly will be, eventually) expect a significant improvement.
I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I won't look at your posted images as I'm very happy with this BD so I see no need to try looking for problems that I couldn't see beforehand. I guess, ignorance is bless.:)
 

ArnoldLayne

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Moshrom said:
This certainly *has* been subjected to a moderate amount of DNR, but it is arguably the best version available. There are two DVDs, and the newer one appears to have been derived from the same master/source as the blu-ray (which I'm assuming is identical to its European counterpart). There's a sizable improvement in stability, but the old DVD looks more organic and has more 'depth' to it, despite its myriad of other issues.


Once you notice the DNR on the blu-ray, though, it's rather difficult to unsee it:

http://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=1194&d2=1193&s1=11445&s2=11437&i=0&l=0

Look at his face, especially. The lines, the shadow beneath the brim of his hat, his nose. They have a blotchy quality to them.


And here:

http://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=1194&d2=1193&s1=11448&s2=11440&i=3&l=0

The details of his suit (again, the lines), and look at the wood on the floor in the corner. The light mounted on the wall, too.


The DVD in these caps-a-holic comparisons is the newer one, so it has the same problems (albeit much less noticeably due to the resolution).


The old DVD can be seen here: new, old. It's quite different.


Nit-picking this may seem, but it is quite evident in motion depending on your sensitivity to these sort of things. Rising smoke, in particular, looks much better on the old DVD.


So while this may certainly be watchable and may possibly be the overall best available version of the film at the moment, it's very far from perfect. When this is inevitably restored (it's Ford and among his best works, so it certainly will be, eventually) expect a significant improvement.
I disagree with your assessment, based on these caps (I haven't watched my copy yet). The BD is lighter, cleaner, and less noisy. In the second example, look at her dress and hair. Very nice. I might prefer the darkness of the DVD though.
 

Moshrom

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Fair enough. I tend to be very sensitive to these things, though, and I know my concerns have been mirrored elsewhere on other sites. It's an odd case--much like the Criterion Madame de... blu-ray--in that there still is 'grain' present (enough to mislead someone, even RAH), but there are clear and consistent traces of egregious filtering as well.


(NB: I am also not the type to cry "DNR!" or bemoan the loss of 'chunkier' grain. I know very well what fine grain ought to look like.)


Edit: Ah, it's very evident here: http://www.dvdactive.com/images/reviews/screenshot/2015/10/liberty3_original.jpg

From: http://www.dvdactive.com/reviews/dvd/man-who-shot-liberty-valance-the.html


It's definitely a fairly strong dose, too.
 

Robert Crawford

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Moshrom said:
Fair enough. I tend to be very sensitive to these things, though, and I know my concerns have been mirrored elsewhere on other sites. It's an odd case--much like the Criterion Madame de... blu-ray--in that there still is 'grain' present (enough to mislead someone, even RAH), but there are clear and consistent traces of egregious filtering as well.


(NB: I am also not the type to cry "DNR!" or bemoan the loss of 'chunkier' grain. I know very well what fine grain ought to look like.)


Edit: Ah, it's very evident here: http://www.dvdactive.com/images/reviews/screenshot/2015/10/liberty3_original.jpg

From: http://www.dvdactive.com/reviews/dvd/man-who-shot-liberty-valance-the.html


It's definitely a fairly strong dose, too.
I seriously doubt that!
 

ArnoldLayne

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Moshrom said:
Fair enough. I tend to be very sensitive to these things, though, and I know my concerns have been mirrored elsewhere on other sites. It's an odd case--much like the Criterion Madame de... blu-ray--in that there still is 'grain' present (enough to mislead someone, even RAH), but there are clear and consistent traces of egregious filtering as well.


(NB: I am also not the type to cry "DNR!" or bemoan the loss of 'chunkier' grain. I know very well what fine grain ought to look like.)


Edit: Ah, it's very evident here: http://www.dvdactive.com/images/reviews/screenshot/2015/10/liberty3_original.jpg

From: http://www.dvdactive.com/reviews/dvd/man-who-shot-liberty-valance-the.html


It's definitely a fairly strong dose, too.
Moshrom, thanks for the image pointers and discussion. Image 3, that you highlighted, is the only one that doesn't display for me! One might have to login to see it? Inspecting the others, and not knowing the state of the source, I would have preferred less filtering. Detail is good, and I'll have to see this on my 120" screen, but I see some of the softness you speak of, and possible lack of normal grain. The review on that site mentions DNR halo, which is my bane, but I did not see any. On the first showing, I'll certainly be distracted from the movie by watching for anomalies (unlike my wife, if indeed, she will sit for a Western ;-) ...cheers
 

Dennis Nicholls

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For some reason there's been no discussion of the September 2017 re-release of the US Blu-ray.

Is this the same transfer as the 2015 release discussed in this thread? Or has it been remastered again with a lower level of DNR?
 

Mark-P

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For some reason there's been no discussion of the September 2017 re-release of the US Blu-ray.

Is this the same transfer as the 2015 release discussed in this thread? Or has it been remastered again with a lower level of DNR?
It should simply be a repackaging of the exact same disc. Since the Warner/Paramount distribution deal expired on January 1st 2016, Paramount has slowly been reissuing all the formerly Warner-distributed discs on their own label.
And by the way, the consensus of this thread is that the disc is a stellar transfer.
 

Robert Crawford

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For some reason there's been no discussion of the September 2017 re-release of the US Blu-ray.

Is this the same transfer as the 2015 release discussed in this thread? Or has it been remastered again with a lower level of DNR?
Yep, as Mark stated, Paramount has been re-releasing many of their catalog titles in waves over the last couple of years. Another wave of titles is coming on March 6th.
 

Dennis Nicholls

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I bought several copies last fall, and the jacket and disc bear both the Paramount and WB logos. The quality is very good as far as I can see. I was just curious about any potential changes: heck Amazon lists about 10 BRD versions of this film from various jurisdictions.
 

John Hermes

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Yep, as Mark stated, Paramount has been re-releasing many of their catalog titles in waves over the last couple of years. Another wave of titles is coming on March 6th.
Hey, Paramount. Isn't it time for some new BD catalog releases? You know, like before I die? Still waiting for The Sons of Katie Elder, Donovan's Reef, In Harm's Way, and The Shootist, among a zillion others. How pitiful...
 

OliverK

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Bringing this up again as a new Paramount presents release may be on the horizon.

Paramount went back to the OCN and a 4k DCP is already available:

I am looking forward to a new Blu-ray and maybe even a UHD release in the near future :)
 

Ken Koc

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For a brief time "Valence" was available in 4K UHD. I purchased it. Glad I did because it is not available anymore .
 

JohnnyLancer

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I heard paramount is releasing this on 4k in April. Personally I don't see the the reason. The bluray was enough to suffice especially on a big 4k.
 

Johnny Angell

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The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence is required viewing for anyone who wishes to consider themselves a cinephile. It's also one of those films which makes me jealous of those seeing it for the first time.
Rich Little used to have bit where he had glasses of colored water. Drinking one or the other would allow him to do different voices. We need something like that, a potion to forget TMWSLV or A Man for All Seasons or Raiders of the Lost Ark. Of course you’d have to write a note to yourself to remind yourself to watch the movie.
 

JohnnyLancer

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I found the Blu-ray to have a processed look to it so I am very happy that there will be a 4k UHD soon.
I will rewatch it this weekend on my 4k projector to see how it comes across to me (it wasn't bad if I recall. And I have the 2 disc dvd as well with Peter B commentary). Not to take anything away from you comment. It's a amazing film and one of the best of that decade. So much of it however was sets/Soundstages and to me those films deserve great blurays, but for 4k type visualize those deserve to go to films that have more vastness or more epic in scale for me to truly appreciate it or spend money. Paramount still hasn't released a many of their westerns on bluray. Tin star, neveda smith, sons of Katie elder (they need to fix that travesty of a bluray they released), will penny. I would even take gundight at the ok corral in 4k.
 

OliverK

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I will rewatch it this weekend on my 4k projector to see how it comes across to me (it wasn't bad if I recall. And I have the 2 disc dvd as well with Peter B commentary). Not to take anything away from you comment. It's a amazing film and one of the best of that decade. So much of it however was sets/Soundstages and to me those films deserve great blurays, but for 4k type visualize those deserve to go to films that have more vastness or more epic in scale for me to truly appreciate it or spend money. Paramount still hasn't released a many of their westerns on bluray. Tin star, neveda smith, sons of Katie elder (they need to fix that travesty of a bluray they released), will penny. I would even take gundight at the ok corral in 4k.
If I had my way Gunfight at the OK Corral would get a 4k release, too and I agree that it is a better looking movie, not least because of having been shot in VistaVision. I am however quite happy with the Blu-ray of Gunfight so I prefer Liberty Valance to go first.
 

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