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Nelson Au

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I just read a review of the Criterion 4K blu ray of A Hard Days Night which compared the Criterion blu ray and Criterion 4K blu ray over at bluray.com. It made me wonder if Criterion could at some point release The Great Escape in 4K? But in re-reading RAH’s initial post, it sounds unlikely. The review noted an improvement in image quality on the 4K AHDN compared to their standard blu ray of AHDN.

I have Kino 4K The Great Escape on pre-order. It sounds unlikely a Criterion version coming, so I’ll look forward to sampling this new Kino version. I’m not expecting a day and night difference. Just curious.
 

RICK BOND

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I got mine this morning from Amazon. It looks Great ! It looks Better than the Criterion. Audio sounds Great also. I am satisfied. :) One of my Favorite WWII 1960's movies. :D Great cover art and slip from KL as usual !
DSC00482.JPG
 

Robert Crawford

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By the way, the new audio commentary by Steve Mitchell and Steven Jay Rubin is excellent. Funny and informative.
 

Old Bones

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Does it have the alternate ending where everyone successfully escapes and they all go to the US and lead successful lives in post-war America?
In reality all the Americans who did help in the tunnels construction were all moved to an American Camp a few months before the escape.
 

StreetPreacher

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The film takes on a bit nicer imagery in 4k, and a certain uptick can be noted examining the image close to the screen.

But sit in a normal position, and the film, which was never 4k to begin with, seems a nice match to the Criterion release.

What do you mean that the film "was never 4k to begin with"?
If it was shot on 35mm FILM then it should have the analog equivalent of 3840x2160 lines of digital resolution?

And wasn't this 4K disc produced from a new 4K scan of the original 35mm film, meaning that it essentially came form a '4k source'?
 

JoshZ

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What do you mean that the film "was never 4k to begin with"?
If it was shot on 35mm FILM then it should have the analog equivalent of 3840x2160 lines of digital resolution?

And wasn't this 4K disc produced from a new 4K scan of the original 35mm film, meaning that it essentially came form a '4k source'?

What he's saying is that not all 35mm films really have the equivalent of 4K worth of detail, owing to various factors including the cameras, lenses, film stock, and other production processes used. The Great Escape is rather notorious for having a very soft picture, due to the extensive use of analog optical composites.

In such cases, doing a 4K scan of the film elements really only serves to make the grain stand out more without actually resolving much additional picture detail.
 

Chewbabka

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What he's saying is that not all 35mm films really have the equivalent of 4K worth of detail, owing to various factors including the cameras, lenses, film stock, and other production processes used. The Great Escape is rather notorious for having a very soft picture, due to the extensive use of analog optical composites.

In such cases, doing a 4K scan of the film elements really only serves to make the grain stand out more without actually resolving much additional picture detail.
One man’s “stand out more” is another man’s “resolve better and look less chunky.” That’s one of the big things I notice in 4Ks of older films. I wouldn’t say they’re “grainier” (assuming the original BD wasn’t an over-smoothed botch job), but rather, “more pleasantly grainy.”

I think in the context of VistaVision, RH calls it “velvety”
 

StreetPreacher

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What he's saying is that not all 35mm films really have the equivalent of 4K worth of detail, owing to various factors including the cameras, lenses, film stock, and other production processes used. The Great Escape is rather notorious for having a very soft picture, due to the extensive use of analog optical composites.

In such cases, doing a 4K scan of the film elements really only serves to make the grain stand out more without actually resolving much additional picture detail.
Thanks.

I just always thought that 35mm film was supposed to have more 'resolution' than could even be resolved with a 2k (1080p) scan/encoding. And that a 4K scan is required to really capture ALL of the detail present in the original 35mm photography.

The review just reminded me of my 'layman' friends who wonder how 'old movies' can be HD when they were produced BEFORE HDTV even existed, and I have to explain that 35mm film can actually capture 'more resolution' than even 1080p! lol
 

Worth

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Thanks.

I just always thought that 35mm film was supposed to have more 'resolution' than could even be resolved with a 2k (1080p) scan/encoding. And that a 4K scan is required to really capture ALL of the detail present in the original 35mm photography.

The review just reminded me of my 'layman' friends who wonder how 'old movies' can be HD when they were produced BEFORE HDTV even existed, and I have to explain that 35mm film can actually capture 'more resolution' than even 1080p! lol
The general consensus is that 35mm has somewhere between 3-4K of real picture detail, though exactly how much is going to depend on the film stock, cameras and lenses used, lighting conditions etc. Kodak argues that it's 6K, and that might be true for the newest film stocks if you want to capture every last grain. 4K is typically thought to be good enough by the studios to create a new, digital archival master.

The other thing to keep in mind is that the 3-4K figure describes what's on the original negative. What you would have seen in the cinema would have been nowhere near that. Once you factor in generation loss and the mechanics of film projection, a 35mm release print is well below 2K.
 

JoshZ

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One man’s “stand out more” is another man’s “resolve better and look less chunky.” That’s one of the big things I notice in 4Ks of older films. I wouldn’t say they’re “grainier” (assuming the original BD wasn’t an over-smoothed botch job), but rather, “more pleasantly grainy.”

I can't speak for Great Escape specifically, but on a number of other 4K discs of 35mm titles I've watched, the grain has been far more pronounced than it ever would have been in theaters originally. The generation loss inherent in striking and projecting 35mm release prints softened the edges of the grain considerably. However, doing a 4K scan of the negative and maintaining a direct-digital production chain with no further loss keeps every particle in sharp focus at all times.
 

JoshZ

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I just always thought that 35mm film was supposed to have more 'resolution' than could even be resolved with a 2k (1080p) scan/encoding. And that a 4K scan is required to really capture ALL of the detail present in the original 35mm photography.

The review just reminded me of my 'layman' friends who wonder how 'old movies' can be HD when they were produced BEFORE HDTV even existed, and I have to explain that 35mm film can actually capture 'more resolution' than even 1080p! lol

There's sort of a myth in some circles that photography on film has infinite resolution due to the magical qualities of being "analog," and that no digital scan can ever fully capture it. Not 2K, not 4K, not even a hundred billion "Ks" would hit the limit of all the detail forever preserved on celluloid, waiting for digital technology to slowly uncover a little bit more of it.

In actual practice, that's not even remotely true. The properties of the film stock, the camera lenses, lighting conditions on set, etc. all dictate how much real picture detail will actually be captured on film. Beyond a certain point, all you actually get is grain.
 

roxy1927

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I see a lot more grain in home video than I saw in movie theaters. In fact in movie theaters I don't remember thinking about it.
 

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