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Robert Harris

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Space Jam, an immensely popular hybrid production from 1996, has made its way to 4k UHD courtesy of Warner Bros., and it looks amazing.

Not accurate, or original, but amazing.

Mostly in the way that modern Disney re-visualizations of their classics can look amazing, at least when things aren't going wrong. Again, not original, nor as the artists intended, but very pretty. Especially to five year-old eyes.

Colors pop. Audio, now in Dolby Atmos, fills one's theater.

The new incarnation, however, looks as one might presume its sequel Space Jam: A New Legacy will look when it opens in a couple of weeks.

A New Legacy is a fully digital production.

Let's consider Space Jam akin to the just released Harry Potter and the Chocolate Ticket, which is also missing it's proper grain.

They're both lovely to look at.

Just not what they should be, unless the studio has deemed them to be otherwise, which is hopefully not where Warner Bros is going.

I can just imagine Spender in the Grass.

But MOG.


Image – 4

Audio – 5 (Dolby Atmos)

Pass / Fail – Pass

Plays nicely with projectors - Yes

Recommended

RAH
 

MatthewA

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The people who know how movies shot on film are supposed to look seem to all have migrated to Warner Archive.
 

titch

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Me three. I liked "Wonka" more than RAH but agree that "Space Jam" seems too denoised.

I've seen much, much worse, but the movie just doesn't look quite right.
Is this what the filmmakers intended, or is this a general Warner Bros. trait? I've been pointing this out since the Lord Of The Rings trilogy. Warner Bros. legacy UHD titles differ noticeably from Sony's and Paramount's, which seem to resemble how they originally looked.
 

Robert Crawford

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Is this what the filmmakers intended, or is this a general Warner Bros. trait? I've been pointing this out since the Lord Of The Rings trilogy. Warner Bros. legacy UHD titles differ noticeably from Sony's and Paramount's, which seem to resemble how they originally looked.
The LOTR 4K discs look exactly as the filmmaker intended.
 

Colin Jacobson

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Is this what the filmmakers intended, or is this a general Warner Bros. trait? I've been pointing this out since the Lord Of The Rings trilogy. Warner Bros. legacy UHD titles differ noticeably from Sony's and Paramount's, which seem to resemble how they originally looked.

Since Mel Stuart died 9 years ago, one assumes he didn't have input on the 4K of "Wonka"! ;)

Joe Pytka seems to be retired. Did WB involve him with the "Space Jam" 4K? Probably not.

I had no problems with the visuals of "Wonka" - I thought the sound had issues, though.

And "Space Jam" looks fine for the most part - it's not like they've radically altered it. It's just been denoised a bit, but nothing over the top, IMO.

I thought "Wonka" was a substantial upgrade over the BD, whereas "SJ" looks pretty similar. There's more grain on the BD, but it's not like the 4K is a smoothed-out mess...
 

titch

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The LOTR 4K discs look exactly as the filmmaker intended.
That is correct. Intended for 2020. A revised opinion. The first film does not look what it did when it was released. Ties in with Robert Harris' remarks for Willy Wonka and Space Jam. Of course, it is probably the director's prerogative to change the visual and aural look of a film at their whim. But it is controversial. You only have to mention "Star Wars" to start a 20 page thread. Have you seen the films of Wong Kar Wai in Criterion's box? Several of them have been drastically altered, colour-wise and framing-wise, by the director, as the director intended. In The Mood For Love now looks horrible, compared to what it looked like originally. All the old Disney classic films were altered for blu-ray. I prefer accurate and original.
 

Robert Crawford

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That is correct. Intended for 2020. A revised opinion. The first film does not look what it did when it was released. Ties in with Robert Harris' remarks for Willy Wonka and Space Jam. Of course, it is probably the director's prerogative to change the visual and aural look of a film at their whim. But it is controversial. You only have to mention "Star Wars" to start a 20 page thread. Have you seen the films of Wong Kar Wai in Criterion's box? Several of them have been drastically altered, colour-wise and framing-wise, by the director, as the director intended. In The Mood For Love now looks horrible, compared to what it looked like originally. All the old Disney classic films were altered for blu-ray. I prefer accurate and original.
The hard fact is that your preferences and those of us that post on this board doesn't matter to them. If you don't like the choices they made then don't buy their product. It's not what we want to hear or read, but it's the reality of the situation.
 

JoshZ

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The hard fact is that your preferences and those of us that post on this board doesn't matter to them. If you don't like the choices they made then don't buy their product. It's not what we want to hear or read, but it's the reality of the situation.

"Love it or leave it," then? That's a pretty defeatest attitude. If filmmakers couldn't be shamed into correcting their stupid decisions, we'd still be suffering with a purple-tinted French Connection right now.

See also:
- Apocalypse Now restored to its original aspect ratio
- Alien remastered without the obnoxious teal-and-orange color grading
- The first Matrix movie remastered without the heavy green tint to match the sequels
- Raiders of the Lost Ark's heavy yellow tint at least toned down significantly
- Back to the Future with no DNR
- The censored "walkie talkie" version of E.T. falling into obscurity and the original version returning to prominence
 
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Robert Crawford

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"Love it or leave it," then? That's a pretty defeatest attitude. If filmmakers couldn't be shamed into correcting their stupid decisions, we'd still be suffering with a purple-tinted French Connection right now.

See also:
- Apocalypse Now restored to its original aspect ratio
- Alien remastered without the obnoxious teal-and-orange color grading
- The first Matrix movie remastered without the heavy green tint to match the sequels
- Raiders of the Lost Ark's heavy yellow tint at least toned down significantly
- Back to the Future with no DNR
- The censored "walkie talkie" version of E.T. falling into obscurity and the original version returning to prominence
You really think we shamed them into correcting their mistakes? Come on! Another thing, the studios home video departments are so splintered right now, we don't even know who to complain to any longer. Is there anybody out there listening to our complaints that has any real power to change anything?
 

MatthewA

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When people don't buy a movie on disc, studios tend to assume it's because the non-consumer disliked the movie rather than it being the technical presentation they took issue with. They have no way of accounting for sales they would have had had they not been so heavy-handed in trying to restore a film and ending up with the cinematic equivalent of compulsively washing one's hands. If little kids don't care, which is the assumption the studio seems to be operating under, then why bother to go through all that trouble? Did the little kids of 1996 care about film grain when they actually saw it in theaters on film?
 

titch

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Did the little kids of 1996 care about film grain when they actually saw it in theaters on film?
Very, very few people are concerned about the presentation of a film. As you say, it's the content first and foremost. The average person doesn't have a clue about calibration. Few people complained about the horrible blu-rays (especially from Universal and Lionsgate) when the format was first launched. If you check on review sites of films released over ten years ago, most are gushing about the picture "in high-definition resolution" and 5.1 sound. It's only through experts on film and film restoration on sites like these, that many adopters have come realise that film grain is not evil and that one doesn't need HDR slathered all over a film.
 

Colin Jacobson

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When people don't buy a movie on disc, studios tend to assume it's because the non-consumer disliked the movie rather than it being the technical presentation they took issue with. They have no way of accounting for sales they would have had had they not been so heavy-handed in trying to restore a film and ending up with the cinematic equivalent of compulsively washing one's hands. If little kids don't care, which is the assumption the studio seems to be operating under, then why bother to go through all that trouble? Did the little kids of 1996 care about film grain when they actually saw it in theaters on film?

Why bother to make 4K discs at all if the only concern is what "little kids" will think of the image?

Spoiler alert: little kids don't care about PQ.

Spoiler alert 2: little kids aren't really the fan base for the 1996 "Space Jam" period, much less on videophile formats. It's Millennials who grew up with it.
 

JoshZ

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You really think we shamed them into correcting their mistakes?

With regard to French Connection, absolutely. The only reason we got a re-release of that title on Blu-ray was that Friedkin took a beating over his "pastel" nonsense and was publicly shamed into backtracking. These days, he has actually tried to blame the studio for screwing up the first transfer without his knowledge - which is pure horses**t, as the original Blu-ray had a Color Timing featurette where you can see Friedkin sitting in front of a video monitor watching the purple-tinted transfer and raving about how wonderful he thought it was.

Restoration of Apocalypse Now's full aspect ratio can also be attributed to public outcry over Vittorio Storaro cropping the DVD.
 

Robert Harris

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With regard to French Connection, absolutely. The only reason we got a re-release of that title on Blu-ray was that Friedkin took a beating over his "pastel" nonsense and was publicly shamed into backtracking. These days, he has actually tried to blame the studio for screwing up the first transfer without his knowledge - which is pure horses**t, as the original Blu-ray had a Color Timing featurette where you can see Friedkin sitting in front of a video monitor watching the purple-tinted transfer and raving about how wonderful he thought it was.

Restoration of Apocalypse Now's full aspect ratio can also be attributed to public outcry over Vittorio Storaro cropping the DVD.
And now, if The Last Emperor could be 2.35...
 

Robert Crawford

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With regard to French Connection, absolutely. The only reason we got a re-release of that title on Blu-ray was that Friedkin took a beating over his "pastel" nonsense and was publicly shamed into backtracking. These days, he has actually tried to blame the studio for screwing up the first transfer without his knowledge - which is pure horses**t, as the original Blu-ray had a Color Timing featurette where you can see Friedkin sitting in front of a video monitor watching the purple-tinted transfer and raving about how wonderful he thought it was.

Restoration of Apocalypse Now's full aspect ratio can also be attributed to public outcry over Vittorio Storaro cropping the DVD.
I don't think the studios were shamed, but just realized mistakes were made.
 

JoshZ

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I don't think the studios were shamed, but just realized mistakes were made.

Friedkin was most assuredly shamed. His own cinematographer spoke out against him. Friedkin was very pleased with the first Blu-ray and would not have consented to a remaster if it had been received better. Afterward, he tried to shift the blame to anyone and everyone he could think of.
 

Robert Crawford

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Friedkin was most assuredly shamed. His own cinematographer spoke out against him. Friedkin was very pleased with the first Blu-ray and would not have consented to a remaster if it had been received better. Afterward, he tried to shift the blame to anyone and everyone he could think of.
For the sake of others reading this thread, I will concede Friedkin.
 

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