UHD Review A Few Words About A few words about...™ - Narrow Margin (1990) -- in 4k UHD (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

There is no easy way to compare Peter Hyams 1990 remake of the 1952 Richard Fleischer original without the remake looking like a cheap, poorly-plotted copy.

Wasting the talents of Gene Hackman and Anne Archer, it has all the sound, fury and action, but none of the smarts of grade A thriller.

What does it have?

It was shot by Mr. Hyams, and the cinematography works. The score by Bruce Broughton ditto.

In league with the film, Kino has given the Carolco film a 4k release, which looks great, with only a single problem.

I'm not seeing anything over 2k in the film.

Color, grain structure, black levels all work nicely, but it's just not a film that was shot to impress with high resolution, and for me, is another 4k example that would make a great Blu-ray.

Audio is fine.

Image - (Dolby Vision)

Forensic - 4
NSD - 7

Audio – 10 (DTS-HD MA 5.1)

Pass / Fail – Pass

Plays nicely with projectors - Yes

Makes use of and works well in 4k - 2

Upgrade from Blu-ray - No

Worth your attention - 4

Slipcover rating - 1

RAH


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https://www.amazon.com/Narrow-Margi...1721277552&sprefix=narrow+margi,aps,94&sr=8-1

 

[Keith Cobby]

Thanks for the review, I was hoping that it would look as good as Ronin, but sadly not. Will stick with the blu ray.

 

[Malcolm R]

I reviewed this for my college newspaper, but about the only thing I still remember about it was that I loved the cinematography. I believe I have the blu-ray, but haven't got to re-watch it yet. Will likely stick with that.

 

[Robert Harris]

I’d love to see 4k media used only for productions that have above 2k data.

 

[JoshZ]

Thanks for the review, I was hoping that it would look as good as Ronin, but sadly not. Will stick with the blu ray.

Peter Hyams insisted in pulling double duty as both director and cinematographer, and had his own often idiosyncratic ideas about photography. Most of his movies are very grainy and underlit. That issue probably hit its zenith with The Relic, theatrical prints for which were so dim and murky that theaters around the country were inundated with complaints from audiences about their projector lamps being defective.

Because Hyams also favored anamorphic lenses for his photography, which require more light than spherical lenses, but refused to light the image sufficiently, he had to rely on fast film stocks that wouldn't pick up nearly as much detail on the camera negative as slower stocks designed for better lighting might.

I doubt any Peter Hyams movie has 4K worth of detail on its negative. Even 2K is probably pushing things for most of them.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

I doubt any Peter Hyams movie has 4K worth of detail on its negative. Even 2K is probably pushing things for most of them.

I would qualify the above statement by inserting "where he served as his own DOP". He's worked with highly esteemed DOPs on some films, including Capricorn One [Bill Butler] and Outland [Stephen Goldblatt]. I, for one, would like to see either of these in 4K.

 

[JoshZ]

I would qualify the above statement by inserting "where he served as his own DOP". He's worked with highly esteemed DOPs on some films, including Capricorn One [Bill Butler] and Outland [Stephen Goldblatt]. I, for one, would like to see either of these in 4K.

Fair. It looks like 1983's The Star Chamber was the last time Hyams allowed anyone else to serve as DP for him (at least, on a feature). From 1984's 2010 forward, he shot everything himself, except in the rare cases when working in TV (Amazing Stories, Threshold).

I even wouldn't be surprised if the latter was a contractual issue where he was required to work with the DPs already in place for each show, whether he wanted to or not.

Amusingly, Hyams also has one DP credit for a movie he didn't direct himself - his son John Hyams' Universal Soldier: Regeneration.

 

[Robert Harris]

Peter Hyams insisted in pulling double duty as both director and cinematographer, and had his own often idiosyncratic ideas about photography. Most of his movies are very grainy and underlit. That issue probably hit its zenith with The Relic, theatrical prints for which were so dim and murky that theaters around the country were inundated with complaints from audiences about their projector lamps being defective.

Because Hyams also favored anamorphic lenses for his photography, which require more light than spherical lenses, but refused to light the image sufficiently, he had to rely on fast film stocks that wouldn't pick up nearly as much detail on the camera negative as slower stocks designed for better lighting might.

I doubt any Peter Hyams movie has 4K worth of detail on its negative. Even 2K is probably pushing things for most of them.

It does not.

 

[bobclampett]

I like this movie and have the Blu-Ray. Gene Hackman’s chase scene on top of a moving train going through the Rockies is a truly hair raising sequence unlike todays CGI fest. It’s different enough from the original to maintain suspense. I thought it looked a lot better than many other films from this time period. What’s really great is the 4K disc can actually be purchased here in Canada, unlike Columbia’s and Paramount’s recent releases. Can‘t imagine the 4K disc looking worse than the Blu Ray so my recommendation is if you like Gene Hackman buy it. Note to your Canadian readers avoid Amazon.ca they grossly over charge on Kino releases. There is a Canadian owned and operated on-line source that beats Amazon.ca every time.

 

[Worth]

I like the look of Hyams’ films, but it’s a style that tends not to translate that well to video. They look much better projected in 35mm. I went to a 35mm screening of 2010 recently and thought it looked great.

 

[Worth]

I would qualify the above statement by inserting "where he served as his own DOP". He's worked with highly esteemed DOPs on some films, including Capricorn One [Bill Butler] and Outland [Stephen Goldblatt]. I, for one, would like to see either of these in 4K.

Hyams reportedly shot much of Outland (and probably The Star Chamber) himself, relying on Goldblatt more for the effects stuff.
https://theasc.com/articles/stephen-goldblatt-asc-bsc-an-eye-for-imagery#:~:text=Goldblatt's%20next%20project%20was%20the,make%20the%20most%20of%20it.

 

[CC95]

I’d love to see 4k media used only for productions that have above 2k data.

If we know 35mm film can resolve up to 4-6K because of the latitude film affords, why would there not be 4k worth of material here?

 

[Robert Harris]

If we know 35mm film can resolve up to 4-6K because of the latitude film affords, why would there not be 4k worth of material here?

Optics and film grain. The scan is giving you 4k. But if the 4k image isn’t highly resolved, there’s nothing to see.

And to be clear, there is nothing wrong with the cinematography of Narrow Margin.

 

[sbjork]

No, there's nothing wrong with the cinematography of Narrow Margin or any of the other films that Hyams shot personally (including the one that he shot for his son John, Universal Soldier: Regeneration). In fact, he's an outstanding cinematographer. He prefers natural lighting and practical light sources, and he lights things beautifully. Saying that his films are "underlit" is very much an opinion, and a fair one, but it's not a fact. If Hyams was guilty of underlighting, then so was Bruce Surtees, because their styles are very similar. (And yes, I heard people complain that Pale Rider was too dark when I was walking out of the theatre back in 1985). The Relic is definitely the darkest of his dark films, and yes, there were complaints about that, but It's a stylistic choice, not a "refusal to light things sufficiently." People don't agree about cinematography any more than they agree about directing or writing, and fair enough, but opinions still aren't fact.

My copy of Narrow Margin hasn't arrived yet (Kino appears to have shipped via Pony Express this time) but I'm looking forward to checking it out. I've always thought that it was one of his most beautifully shot films, especially in the interiors where he really leaned into practical light sources. And yes, nothing about his style lends itself toward capturing the maximum level of detail on the negative, but I still maintain (opinion) that a good 4K master can handle the grain better than Blu-ray, so I'm hopeful that this will be a satisfying release -- for me, at least. Although I do wish that they'd applied a gentle HDR grade to it -- no, the peak brightness is never going to be particularly high in this film, but on the opposite end of the spectrum, it may have been able to wring more detail out of the darker scenes.

Speaking of The Relic, I rewatched the old Blu-ray of that a few months ago, and that tired old master certainly doesn't help. A fresh scan with a judiciously applied HDR grade could help resolve more of the image without damaging Hyam's intentions. I also rewatched 2010 within the past year, which is another tired old master, and I think that an HDR grade could work wonders on that one.

 

[Robert Harris]

No, there's nothing wrong with the cinematography of Narrow Margin or any of the other films that Hyams shot personally (including the one that he shot for his son John, Universal Soldier: Regeneration). In fact, he's an outstanding cinematographer. He prefers natural lighting and practical light sources, and he lights things beautifully. Saying that his films are "underlit" is very much an opinion, and a fair one, but it's not a fact. If Hyams was guilty of underlighting, then so was Bruce Surtees, because their styles are very similar. (And yes, I heard people complain that Pale Rider was too dark when I was walking out of the theatre back in 1985). The Relic is definitely the darkest of his dark films, and yes, there were complaints about that, but It's a stylistic choice, not a "refusal to light things sufficiently." People don't agree about cinematography any more than they agree about directing or writing, and fair enough, but opinions still aren't fact.

My copy of Narrow Margin hasn't arrived yet (Kino appears to have shipped via Pony Express this time) but I'm looking forward to checking it out. I've always thought that it was one of his most beautifully shot films, especially in the interiors where he really leaned into practical light sources. And yes, nothing about his style lends itself toward capturing the maximum level of detail on the negative, but I still maintain (opinion) that a good 4K master can handle the grain better than Blu-ray, so I'm hopeful that this will be a satisfying release -- for me, at least. Although I do wish that they'd applied a gentle HDR grade to it -- no, the peak brightness is never going to be particularly high in this film, but on the opposite end of the spectrum, it may have been able to wring more detail out of the darker scenes.

Speaking of The Relic, I rewatched the old Blu-ray of that a few months ago, and that tired old master certainly doesn't help. A fresh scan with a judiciously applied HDR grade could help resolve more of the image without damaging Hyam's intentions. I also rewatched 2010 within the past year, which is another tired old master, and I think that an HDR grade could work wonders on that one.

I had a very brief discussion with Gordon Willis re studio types complaining that he was under/overexposing his negative.

The fact is his exposures were perfect, and precisely where he wanted them.

Couldn’t be more simple.

In the same light, exposures on Narrow Margin are beautifully rendered on the 4k.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I received my 4K/UHD from Target last Friday. I didn't want to get involved in this discussion, but I might have to watch my 4K/UHD today or tomorrow.

 

[sbjork]

I had a very brief discussion with Gordon Willis re studio types complaining that he was under/overexposing his negative.

The fact is his exposures were perfect, and precisely where he wanted them.

Couldn’t be more simple.

In the same light, exposures on Narrow Margin are beautifully rendered on the 4k.

Which is all that I could ask for (aside from a possible HDR grade, but that's just speculation on my part). I'm guessing that I'll probably be more satisfied with this in 4K than you are, but I totally understand why you feel that it's not necessary.

Now, if the Pony Express just gets here before the weekend. Although I still don't have the Casa Bjork Home Theatre put together again after my basement flooded during a storm last Saturday night/Sunday morning, so maybe it's for the best that I don't have the disc to tempt me on a work night!

 

[plektret]

I’d love to see 4k media used only for productions that have above 2k data.

I think that would be a very very bad idea. The UHD standard is so much more than additional detail. It's grain resolving. UHD seems to be able to resemble celluloid more faithfully than the HD standard. H264 struggles with reproducing grain. Some low-pass filtering is often needed. Grain tends to look more clean and natural in 4K and H265, without any need to use filtering. The problem with banding is greatly reduced at 10bit. All of these limitations of the HD standard, creating digital artifacts, destroys the illusions that I'm watching film. UHD is able to render the source material more faithfully without those distracting digital artifacts. It doesn't matter to me if the source material is 70mm OCN or 16mm dupes. I love that I can get the illusion of watching analog film in my home. This is why I'm strongly against limiting the use of UHD for material containing above 2k detail only, especially since UHD is most likely the last disc format we will get. Again, the UHD format has so much potential beyond rendering detail above 2k.

 

[JoshZ]

I think that would be a very very bad idea. The UHD standard is so much more than additional detail. It's grain resolving.

In many cases, it's too much grain resolving, way more than you ever would have seen on a theatrical print back in the day. Directors and cinematographers (more so the cinematographers, usually) at the time understood the characteristics of the film stocks they were shooting on and the characteristics of the stocks they'd be printing onto, and planned accordingly for the image that would be projected. Rarely did they expect or want a coarse coating of sandpaper-like grain visible to the audience, which is what we too often get with 4K transfers that can resolve every grain particle to the molecular level.

 

[JoshZ]

No, there's nothing wrong with the cinematography of Narrow Margin or any of the other films that Hyams shot personally (including the one that he shot for his son John, Universal Soldier: Regeneration). In fact, he's an outstanding cinematographer. He prefers natural lighting and practical light sources, and he lights things beautifully. Saying that his films are "underlit" is very much an opinion, and a fair one, but it's not a fact. If Hyams was guilty of underlighting, then so was Bruce Surtees, because their styles are very similar. (And yes, I heard people complain that Pale Rider was too dark when I was walking out of the theatre back in 1985). The Relic is definitely the darkest of his dark films, and yes, there were complaints about that, but It's a stylistic choice, not a "refusal to light things sufficiently." People don't agree about cinematography any more than they agree about directing or writing, and fair enough, but opinions still aren't fact.

I get that, but I still think Hyams more often than not pushed things too far in his fetishism for natural and source lighting. Most of his movies (IMO, of course) have a very drab, dull appearance, and can be highly inconsistent in grain and black levels even from shot-to-shot within scenes, as he frequently had to push shots in the lab when he underexposed them on set.

Again IMO, this frequently works against the material he's filming, especially in 2010, which 1) has no visual consistency with its predecessor, and 2) has little visual consistency even with itself, as the dim and grainy live-action footage is butted against the much better-lit model and miniature FX shot by the 2nd Unit crew.

I haven't watched Narrow Margin specifically in many years, and may have only seen it on VHS, so I do have interest in this disc. I'd also like to support Peter Tonguette, who did the audio commentary.