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Stephen PI

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Well then what's that story about David Selznick walking with Lean on Fifth Av and telling him not to cut the film after the opening at the Criterion in NY. I thought the film that opened at the Odeon in London was the same film that opened in NY and Lean cut it only after its NY opening getting cold feet despite Selznick's advice. Was it cut after its London premiere and then again after its premiere in NY?
Of course it could have been cut in London before the NY premiere and after seeing it in NY Lean was thinking of further cuts.


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The New York and Los Angeles premieres in December, 1962, all were the 222 minute version. I mentioned in my post that the 202 minute version was still in the works in January, 1963. I don't know the dates for the US theaters when they commenced the revised version. In London the revised version commenced on February 7th 1963 at the Metropole Theater in Victoria, London, the day after the Odeon finished the premiere run. The Odeon Leicester Square ran the 222 minute version for the duration of the run (December 10th '62 (Premiere) through February 6th '63).
Just noticed in the photo on the marquee, on the side, of the Criterion theater that the Lawrence face logo is reversed and must be a mistake.
Just noticed the reason, they wanted the title to the left so they reversed the entire artwork.
 
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Robert Harris

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Thanks Robert that's great information to know.
One question, you mention Technicolor producing '222 matrices' (which I assume you are referring to the dye-transfer printing ones), when the film was cut, were the matrices re-made or were they cut to conform, or were you referring to terminology relating to 70mm printing?
The 222 minute matrices were destroyed, and a set of 202s were produced.

The OCN had been cut single strand, and was re-cut as such. Then re-cut again in 1970 In the same format. Over 120 runs were on that negative in 1986, when I first wound through it.
 

Robert Harris

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Well then what's that story about David Selznick walking with Lean on Fifth Av and telling him not to cut the film after the opening at the Criterion in NY. I thought the film that opened at the Odeon in London was the same film that opened in NY and Lean cut it only after its NY opening getting cold feet despite Selznick's advice. Was it cut after its London premiere and then again after its premiere in NY?
Of course it could have been cut in London before the NY premiere and after seeing it in NY Lean was thinking of further cuts.


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No. It was re-cut in January ‘63, and then again c. October ‘70.
 

Stephen PI

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I recall quite clearly on RYAN when David Lean left for Shepperton Studios for several days for the further re-cut on LAWRENCE. This version was for the US only and remember it being shown at one of the revival theaters in Los Angeles with MAN WHO WOULD BE KING.
 

Chelsearicky

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I recall quite clearly on RYAN when David Lean left for Shepperton Studios for several days for the further re-cut on LAWRENCE. This version was for the US only and remember it being shown at one of the revival theaters in Los Angeles with MAN WHO WOULD BE KING.
This cut played the Rivoli Theater in NYC in late '70. It was shown on a 'reserved seat' basis, though the engagement was short-lived. NYC critics who reviewed this re-release all made mention of the cuts and subsequent shortened running time.
 
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Stephen PI

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The film was also re-released in London's West-End at the Dominion, Tottenham Court Road, but retained the 202 minute version.
 

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PaulRossen

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This cut played the Rivoli Theater in NYC in late '70. It was shown on a 'reserved seat' basis, though the engagement was short-lived. NYC critics who reviewed this re-release all made mention of the cuts and subsequent shortened running time.
I saw this cut at the Rivoli. The film made absolutely no sense. My younger brother who was seeing Lawrence for the first time wondered what all the fuss was about this film. It did not play Roadshow at the Rivoli to the best of my knowledge. But sometimes memory fades…
 
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Chelsearicky

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I saw this cut at the Rivoli. The film made absolutely no sense. My younger brother who was seeing Lawrence for the first time wondered what all the fuss was about this film. It did not play Roadshow at the Rivoli to the best of my knowledge. But sometimes memory fades…
It was, indeed, a brief Roadshow presentation. I saw it as well and agree with you....this cut was incomprehensible.
 
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PaulRossen

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It was, indeed, a brief Roadshow presentation. I saw it as well and agree with you....this cut was incomprehensible.
Lawrence played at the Rivoli in March 1971. It was shown Monday thru Thursday 2 shows a day. On the weekends it played 3 shows a day. Tickets could be bought in advance and guaranteed seating but did not guarantee any particular seat. It was the same policy that Ryan’a Daughter had at the Ziegfeld. I’m pretty sure it was not shown in 70mm and stereo.
 

Robert Harris

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Lawrence played at the Rivoli in March 1971. It was shown Monday thru Thursday 2 shows a day. On the weekends it played 3 shows a day. Tickets could be bought in advance and guaranteed seating but did not guarantee any particular seat. It was the same policy that Ryan’a Daughter had at the Ziegfeld. I’m pretty sure it was not shown in 70mm and stereo.
In 1963, there were a small number of 35mm mag only prints.
 

Chelsearicky

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Lawrence played at the Rivoli in March 1971. It was shown Monday thru Thursday 2 shows a day. On the weekends it played 3 shows a day. Tickets could be bought in advance and guaranteed seating but did not guarantee any particular seat. It was the same policy that Ryan’a Daughter had at the Ziegfeld. I’m pretty sure it was not shown in 70mm and stereo.
When I posted my comment I was actually going to say 'late '70 or early'71'. I remember the announcement in the NY Times, and purchasing my ticket during the week for a weekend screening. Thanks for researching and clarifying this for us.
 

titch

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Excellent in-depth article by industry expert Joe Kane on restoration and repurposing of images from Widescreen Review. Refreshing to read after all the wah-wah spouted over in the The Flight Of The Phoenix thread. Incidentally, Robert Harris is mentioned on page 6.
 

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roxy1927

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No. It was re-cut in January ‘63, and then again c. October ‘70.
So it was cut after its Criterion opening not after its London opening meaning the film that opened at the Criterion was the exact same film that had its world premiere at the Odeon. That's what I had always thought when I read that Selznick in NY was telling Lean not to cut the film.
 

roxy1927

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Great news it is now available individually. I remember many decades ago this old book store on lower Broadway had a large stack of unsold original soundtracks clearly from when the film first opened which it was selling for a few dollars each. I assume they were overstock that were sitting in a warehouse or factory somewhere and were recently found. What was so nice is it came in an lp sized box which had the gorgeous souvenir book included. Though not wrapped which was usually done at the factory or warehouse the lp and book were in brand new condition. I bought one but I should have bought 10.
 

Nelson Au

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On the assumption that you are not joking, that is precisely why there is recent activity. Pre-order link on Amazon is now up.
I actually made that post before the stand alone was announced in the other thread. So I really didn’t know. The recent activity here was about something else.
 

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