UHD Review A Few Words About A few words about...™ - Heat -- in 4k UHD (1 Viewer)

[Konstantinos]

I still prefer the theatrical cut (as is often the case when Mann recuts his films). Just as with The Last of the Mohicans, I'd buy a Blade Runner-style 4K UHD set with both cuts, but not this one that includes only the revisionist cut.

Oh, this is NOT the theatrical cut?
I didn't know it. I have never seen this film but I always prefer to see the theatrical cuts first.
Has the theatrical cut been released at all in any format?

 

[Bryan Tuck]

Oh, this is NOT the theatrical cut?
I didn't know it. I have never seen this film but I always prefer to see the theatrical cuts first.
Has the theatrical cut been released at all in any format?

From what I understand, the DVD releases have the original theatrical version.

But I think the only changes in the cut for the Blu-ray releases are the removal of two lines and one shortened shot. And the color grading on the initial Blu-ray release is apparently closer to the original theatrical timing.

 

[JoshZ]

Oh, this is NOT the theatrical cut?
I didn't know it. I have never seen this film but I always prefer to see the theatrical cuts first.
Has the theatrical cut been released at all in any format?

The theatrical cut was released on VHS, Laserdisc, and DVD. But both prior Blu-ray editions and now this 4K UHD are the so-called Director's Edition.

But I think the only changes in the cut for the Blu-ray releases are the removal of two lines and one shortened shot. And the color grading on the initial Blu-ray release is apparently closer to the original theatrical timing.

As far as Michael Mann revisions go, Heat came out with only a light trimming. The missing lines are barely noticeable, and only if you're very familiar with the previous version. It could have been much worse. I half expected him to cut the entire armored car heist from the latest version, with some explanation that it doesn't interest him anymore and he thinks the film moves better without it.

 

[Bartman]

What does this mean?

According to online reviews if you compare the two regular Blu-rays, the Definitive Edition is darker and the earlier Warner has occasional sharpening applied.

 

[Sega]

I have it on Laser Disc & Blu-Ray.
I'm going to look good, and see if
the 4K. Is worth the upgrade?
And that means. The price on Amazon.
Time will tell!

 

[YANG]

the coverart is so Disney-esque flavored. however, Robert mentioned that its a Warner release? is that a non US region release that still bears the Warner badge?

 

[sbjork]

I still prefer the theatrical cut (as is often the case when Mann recuts his films). Just as with The Last of the Mohicans, I'd buy a Blade Runner-style 4K UHD set with both cuts, but not this one that includes only the revisionist cut.

Tangential, but this is a thread related to Michael Mann. There are a few import Blu-rays that include the theatrical cut of Last of the Mohicans, with the ViaVision version being region-free:

https://thedigitalbits.com/item/last-of-the-mohicans-ue-vv-2022-bd

 

[Dave Moritz]

Am planning on getting the 4K release as long as it is a good transfer and even a slight upgrade from my blu-ray copy.

 

[YANG]

from 2K to 4K... that quite a jump, i guess I'm going for a giant leap, of faith.
from DVD to UHD!

 

[Garysb]

Michael Mann's director's cut was issued on Blu-ray a few years ago before the Disney-Fox buyout. It went from Warner to Fox because Regency's distribution had ended. Similarly, this is why Fox (now Disney) distributes Once Upon a Time in America and L.A. Confidential.

Fortunetely I didn't lose my digital copies of Once Upon a Time in America and L.A. Confidential when the distribution switched from Warner to 20th/Disney.

 

[Carlo_M]

Love this film. I'll buy it. To be honest I didn't even realize it wasn't the TC, but reading peoples' comments it seems to be extremely minor differences. So I'll be buying this on Day 1.

Also, anyone else remember the "De Niro and Pacino were never on set together conspiracy theory" back in the day? Good times.

 

[TonyD]

Love this film. I'll buy it. To be honest I didn't even realize it wasn't the TC, but reading peoples' comments it seems to be extremely minor differences. So I'll be buying this on Day 1.

Also, anyone else remember the "De Niro and Pacino were never on set together conspiracy theory" back in the day? Good times.

Is that what the controversy was?
I thought it was more that Mann didn’t film a proper scene with them on screen together at the same time other then those over the shoulder shots.

 

[Carlo_M]

The Conspiracy Theory I recall was that some people claimed that those over-the-shoulder shots was because the two actors "didn't want to be around each other" (for whatever unspecified reason, most likely inflated egos or what not) so Mann had to do over-the-shoulder shots and used back-of-head doubles.

The prevailing theory driving that conspiracy being "if you had two iconic actors why wouldn't you shoot both of their faces onscreen at the same time?!?!"

Which of course I never subscribed to. There are very logical, logistical, and creative reasons to shoot that scene as over-the-shoulder shots. Sometimes they're focusing on the person speaking, sometimes they're of the reaction to the speaker. It's all very creative and intentional.

Also, the way the film is structured, it required them to be apart more than together for the majority of the film. The point of the film is that you are watching two lives spiraling in different directions (Pacino's is falling apart, De Niro's is coming together...so much so that it's to a fault and he violates his principle about being able to walk away from anything at a drop of a hat). It would be odd to have a ton of scenes with the two of them, not just from the dual story arc standpoint, but it's a one-man-chasing-another movie. If they're in a bunch of scenes, that kind of defeats the chase purpose as well.

 

[Carlo_M]

Also, to prep for the 4K release I watched the hour-long panel that Christopher Nolan MC'd for the film's 20th anniversary. The first half hour was Michael Mann, Robert De Niro and Al Pacino, and then the second half hour was just about everyone else from the film including the technical side. This was from 2016 (so technically 21 years after its release).

There's a slightly tense part of the discussion where Dante Spinotti, the film's Director of Photography, talks about how wonderful the 4K restoration is, and how he finds it superior to film because they were finally able to bring out shadow detail they couldn't before, to which of course Nolan bristled a bit (I think he said "I'll respectfully ignore that"). And of course we have the recent Godfather 4K re-release issue where shadow detail, color grading and all were changed in the digital realm which we're pretty sure Gordon Willis would not have approved of.

It just further illustrates how different artists view the progression of film-to-digital in different ways. And for the record, I wanted the GF films to essentially be just a 4K port of RAH's previous work which heavily involved Mr. Willis. But it was eye-opening to me to see someone of Mr. Spinotti's stature and track record to be such an advocate of using digital tools on what was originally a shot-on-film work.

 

[JoshZ]

The Conspiracy Theory I recall was that some people claimed that those over-the-shoulder shots was because the two actors "didn't want to be around each other" (for whatever unspecified reason, most likely inflated egos or what not) so Mann had to do over-the-shoulder shots and used back-of-head doubles.

The prevailing theory driving that conspiracy being "if you had two iconic actors why wouldn't you shoot both of their faces onscreen at the same time?!?!"

Which of course I never subscribed to. There are very logical, logistical, and creative reasons to shoot that scene as over-the-shoulder shots. Sometimes they're focusing on the person speaking, sometimes they're of the reaction to the speaker. It's all very creative and intentional.

I never thought the issue was about the stars not wanting to be around each other, but rather just that they were both very busy working on a lot of projects at the time and couldn't coordinate their schedules.

If they were both on set at the same time, then Michael Mann really blew an opportunity to let these two powerhouse actors react against one another in the same frame. Sorry, but I don't believe there was any good creative reason to shoot their only scene together entirely in over-the-shoulder shots. Doing so only serves to call attention to the fact that they don't really seem to be on set together. Any stand-in could serve as the "shoulder."

Righteous Kill was certainly not as good a movie as Heat, but at least its director was smart enough to put De Niro and Pacino in the same frame as much as possible.

 

[TonyD]

I never thought the issue was about the stars not wanting to be around each other, but rather just that they were both very busy working on a lot of projects at the time and couldn't coordinate their schedules.

If they were both on set at the same time, then Michael Mann really blew an opportunity to let these two powerhouse actors react against one another in the same frame. Sorry, but I don't believe there was any good creative reason to shoot their only scene together entirely in over-the-shoulder shots. Doing so only serves to call attention to the fact that they don't really seem to be on set together. Any stand-in could serve as the "shoulder."

Righteous Kill was certainly not as good a movie as Heat, but at least its director was smart enough to put De Niro and Pacino in the same frame as much as possible.

I’ve been saying this same exact thing for more then 25 years.

 

[Carlo_M]

Well seeing as to how we're all here armchair directors, and he's Michael Mann, here's my two cents from my armchair.

Two guys on edge with each other, not knowing if the other will shoot in an instant. Do you sidle beside them in a corner booth or a round seat? Nope. You sit directly opposite so you can see every movement of the guy in front of you. How do you shoot two people sitting opposite from each other?

Sure you could do a shot from afar, from the side, to get both on the frame...but then you're looking at them from the side, and that detracts from being able to see every minute detail of their face as they deliver, or react to each line of dialogue. None of which are throwaway lines, all brimming with subtext. Every furrowed brow, every sideways glance, every movement on their faces...all of it captured because of Mann's choice for an over-the-shoulder closeup of the actors' faces.

Block the scene out in your mind in whatever alternate way you'd have framed it. Or better yet, we've all got 4K (or in some cases 8K) recording devices on our phones. Have your friends or kids act it out. See if you come up with a more effective framing for that scene and how it compares to what many consider to be a modern cinematic masterpiece.

 

[Blu_rayfan66]

from 2K to 4K... that quite a jump, i guess I'm going for a giant leap, of faith.
from DVD to UHD!

...ironically people on various forums are saying the DVD has more accurate colors

 

[Robert Crawford]

...ironically people on various forums are saying the DVD has more accurate colors

Accurate based on what?

 

[sbjork]

Accurate based on what?

They each have unfaded 35mm theatrical prints in their personal collections that they are using as a reference.

Excuse me. I got knocked out of my chair for a second by the monkeys that appeared unexpectedly beneath me.