A Few Words About A few words about...™ Halloween 35th Anniversary -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Michael Elliott]

One part of this debate I forgot was that Bill Lustig was with Cundey at the time of the 1999 transfer and also said this was correct. I remembered this while doing a search on the 1999 disc trying to find an interview but both men were involved from start to finish for the transfer. Of course, it could just be more P.R. because they're not going to do that transfer and then say it's wrong. I can't find a quote from Lustig but there's a posting saying that he didn't think the Divimax version was correct. It's rather funny reading some of these posts from 2003 because most people are preferring the 1999 one since Cundey approved the transfer. There are a few fans of the Divimax version saying it looks like what they remember from seeing the film theatrically in 1978.

 

[Michael Elliott]

More screenshots of some foreign releases:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/DVDCompare2/halloween.htm

A post from a forum:

Anchor Bay didn't blow the colour timing on the Divimax edition, rather they didn't change it from what was on the negative. The 35mm print I saw a year or so back looked, colour-wise, far closer to the Divimax transfer rather than the 1999 edition. As I understand it, Dean Cundey took the opportunity to retime the whole film according to how he'd originally have shot it if he'd had the time/resources originally, implementing a whole new colour scheme on the photography (brown leaves and lawns everywhere, as opposed to the green on the original prints and Divimax transfer, since the movie was shot in spring).

 

[Mark Booth]

Okay, I found this from 1999:

Halloween has been fully restored under the supervision of Lucasfilm's THX Digital Mastering Services. The video was transferred by award-winning colorist Adam Adams from a new 35mm inter positive (mode (sic) from the original camera negative) and approved by the film's cinematographer Dean Cundey.

Source: http://www.dvdmg.com/halloween.shtml

That implies that Dean Cundey approved Adam Adams' work. It does NOT suggest that Cundey supervised the actual process.

Conversely, for the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray release, I found this:

Trancas International Films, Compass International Pictures and Halloweenmovies.com are proud to announce award winning cinematographer Dean Cundey is supervising the new high definition transfer of John Carpenter's Halloween for the upcoming 35th Anniversary Blu-ray

Source: http://halloweenmovies.com/?p=1550

"Supervising" implies much more involvement versus just "approving."

I don't know how deep Cundey's involvement was with the THX DVD release, but it is pretty apparent he was quite involved with this new Blu-ray release! And he said just that in the interview I linked earlier!

Adding it all up, my mind is convinced... Adam Adams at THX made these dramatic changes to the color timing on the 1999 THX DVD and those changes were run by Cundey for his approval. Basically, he simply signed off on the release. Period. It's my belief that, in that recent interview, when Cundey referred to previous iterations on DVD getting the transfer wrong, he was referring to the THX DVD as one of those examples. With or without his approval, he knows it was wrong. Likewise, the new Blu-ray is the first time it's been done right!

Mark

 

[Dave H]

Agreed, Mark.

Fascinating stuff.

 

[Michael Elliott]

This was, at the time, considered the production diaries for the release. I also covered quite a bit of the release when I was working for a website that I won't mention. You'll notice one name missing from most of these three pages.

http://www.dvdreview.com/html/halloween_special_edition_-_the_lost_reels.shtml

http://www.dvdreview.com/html/halloween_special_edition_-_the_beginning.shtml

http://www.dvdreview.com/html/halloween_special_edition_-_old_vs_new.html


Boy, do I sound like an idiot in this thread reading it today I thought about editing my comments in regards to the last release but I'll let them stand. I posted my current thoughts here about the three looks.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/259416-htf-blu-ray-review-halloween-1978/

Damin J. Toell at HTF spoke directly to Bill:"I spoke to Bill Lustig in person this evening. We discussed Halloween. He has not seen the new AB release. However, he told me that he was personally present for the color correction process of the 99 disc. So was Dean Cundey. Cundey was there for the entire color correction process, not merely some kind of post hoc signing off as has been suggested. Lustig says that the 99 disc represents the original color scheme. It's Lustig's opinion that Halloween ushered in the cliche of blue moonlight, and that to neutralize the nighttimes blues would be a big loss. AB could have easily made their new transfer match the 99 color scheme.

 

[haineshisway]

This was, at the time, considered the production diaries for the release. I also covered quite a bit of the release when I was working for a website that I won't mention. You'll notice one name missing from most of these three pages.

http://www.dvdreview.com/html/halloween_special_edition_-_the_lost_reels.shtml

http://www.dvdreview.com/html/halloween_special_edition_-_the_beginning.shtml

http://www.dvdreview.com/html/halloween_special_edition_-_old_vs_new.html


Boy, do I sound like an idiot in this thread reading it today I thought about editing my comments in regards to the last release but I'll let them stand. I posted my current thoughts here about the three looks.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/259416-htf-blu-ray-review-halloween-1978/

Damin J. Toell at HTF spoke directly to Bill:"I spoke to Bill Lustig in person this evening. We discussed Halloween. He has not seen the new AB release. However, he told me that he was personally present for the color correction process of the 99 disc. So was Dean Cundey. Cundey was there for the entire color correction process, not merely some kind of post hoc signing off as has been suggested. Lustig says that the 99 disc represents the original color scheme. It's Lustig's opinion that Halloween ushered in the cliche of blue moonlight, and that to neutralize the nighttimes blues would be a big loss. AB could have easily made their new transfer match the 99 color scheme.

I'm not sure I believe any of this, frankly. What the press release posted by Mark says is that Cundy approved the new IP, NOT that he approved the actual transfer, at least that's how I read it. I recently released a CD - I was told unequivocally that the previous CDs were mixed in a certain way and that the composer was there - none of it was true, and yet I was told it was by someone who was there. Fascinating, isn't it? I have no doubt the new transfer accurately reflects what the film looked like (I'll have it on Friday) - there is no way to have color-timed the original release prints to have autumnal colors without shifting the ENTIRE color palette and you can see the result of what happens when you do in the DVD.

 

[Mark Booth]

This was, at the time, considered the production diaries for the release. I also covered quite a bit of the release when I was working for a website that I won't mention. You'll notice one name missing from most of these three pages.

http://www.dvdreview.com/html/halloween_special_edition_-_the_lost_reels.shtml

http://www.dvdreview.com/html/halloween_special_edition_-_the_beginning.shtml

http://www.dvdreview.com/html/halloween_special_edition_-_old_vs_new.html


Boy, do I sound like an idiot in this thread reading it today I thought about editing my comments in regards to the last release but I'll let them stand. I posted my current thoughts here about the three looks.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/259416-htf-blu-ray-review-halloween-1978/

Damin J. Toell at HTF spoke directly to Bill:"I spoke to Bill Lustig in person this evening. We discussed Halloween. He has not seen the new AB release. However, he told me that he was personally present for the color correction process of the 99 disc. So was Dean Cundey. Cundey was there for the entire color correction process, not merely some kind of post hoc signing off as has been suggested. Lustig says that the 99 disc represents the original color scheme. It's Lustig's opinion that Halloween ushered in the cliche of blue moonlight, and that to neutralize the nighttimes blues would be a big loss. AB could have easily made their new transfer match the 99 color scheme.

The production diaries and the comments attributed to Bill Lustig are in direct opposition to each other. As you noticed, Cundey's name isn't mentioned in the production diaries (at least, not on the pages I searched). Rather, Adam Adams' is mentioned prominently as the person responsible for the color timing of the 1999 THX DVD.If Cundey was involved, why no mention of him in the production diaries? Everybody's name under the sun is mentioned there, except Cundey!

Mark

 

[Michael Elliott]

Mark, you nailed it about the name that is missing.

Back in 1999 there were very few websites that covered DVDs and there were even fewer ones that covered horror titles. I worked at one of the few and it just seemed like it was common knowledge that Anchor Bay was bringing in all the top hitters to present this film like never before. Obviously they did that as today many still stick to that transfer as being correct while others prefer the current versions. I guess we'll never know but I think there's been enough "evidence" in the past two pages to show that the sides aren't going to change. It would be interesting to hear from those involved in the 1999 and to see if one will admit that they changed the entire look. What they were saying at the time goes against what many Blu-supporters are saying now.

Should we believe what Lustig said about Cundey doing more than just signing off? I guess everyone will have their own opinion on that.

This here has something from Don May:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/318038-a-note-on-halloween-1978/

I personally think May and Lustig are two of the best in the business.

 

[FanboyZ]

I have a feeling that the trees in the 1999 disc were isolated digitally (as best as 1999 could) and turned orange, now they didn't bother for "purism".
So both are correct, however the 2013 is the "most" correct due to it's vintage.

 

[moviebuff75]

So, do we know definitely that the mono track is not the original?

 

[TravisR]

So, do we know definitely that the mono track is not the original?

While I don't have a print to prove it, I would still absolutely guarantee it. The dialogue where Laurie is talking with Tommy on the way to the Myers house is now buried under music. Since that dialogue sets up what she'll be doing for the rest of the movie, there's no way that it would sound the way it now does. Also, the teacher's lesson about fate is nearly inaudible now. To the point that if you didn't know it was missing, you probably think that the scene is played with just music and there's no way that this fairly pertinent dialogue regarding fate was not supposed to be heard.

Ironically, the 7.1 mix of those scenes is much closer to how the movie originally sounded.

 

[moviebuff75]

Thanks. I'll stick with the 7.1 mix then. I'm showing this outdoors at SkyDome, so I need to present it pretty loudly.

 

[JoshZ]

You don't have to take my word for it. Cundey has CLEARLY stated the 35th Anniversary Blu-ray represents the original look and feel that the filmmakers intended. Today's tools for color timing adjustment are far superior to what was available in 1980 or 1999. If golden amber tree leaves is what they intended, why isn't it presented that way on the new Blu-ray?

And William Friedkin swore up, down, left and right that he always intended The French Connection to be tinted purple, like the first Blu-ray release - until he reissued it later without the purple tint and suddenly claimed that he never intended it to be purple, and insisted that it was all somebody else's fault, even though we have him on camera saying that he wanted it tinted purple.

George Lucas still wants us to believe that he always intended Greedo to shoot at Han Solo first, but just didn't have the technology available in 1977 to have the actor remove the gun from his holster before Harrison Ford did, until CGI finally made that possible 20 years later.

I have no reason to doubt Dean Cundey's word that the new Blu-ray is correct. However, I also reserve the right to remain skeptical. Filmmakers sometimes say things that are convenient to make us believe that what they're selling us today is what they always wanted decades earlier.

 

[JoshZ]

Here's the bottom line for you autumnal fans: When you wash an entire transfer so that the leaves look golden and there is less green to the greenery, then every other color in the scene is not what it should be and that's the case with that DVD - skin tones are off as are other colors - that's pretty clearly obvious.

It really isn't my intent to be some sort of voice of opposition here. I just don't have that much invested in the movie. However, Devil's Advocate once again, supposing that Cundey had originally wanted to color time the movie in the lab to give it orange and gold shadings back in 1978, isn't what you describe (the entire scene being shifted to those colors) exactly what the theatrical prints would have looked like?

 

[haineshisway]

It really isn't my intent to be some sort of voice of opposition here. I just don't have that much invested in the movie. However, Devil's Advocate once again, supposing that Cundey had originally wanted to color time the movie in the lab to give it orange and gold shadings back in 1978, isn't what you describe (the entire scene being shifted to those colors) exactly what the theatrical prints would have looked like?

They would have looked like the DVD - but they didn't.

 

[TravisR]

The audio commentary with John Carpenter and Jamie Lee Curtis is pretty fun. Curtis is funny & enthusiastic and it's just nice to hear her spend a good chunk of time talking about the movie.

 

[Vincent_P]

I have a feeling that the trees in the 1999 disc were isolated digitally (as best as 1999 could) and turned orange, now they didn't bother for "purism".
So both are correct, however the 2013 is the "most" correct due to it's vintage.

If you look at the screen-shot of Michael standing on the sidewalk near of the hedges in daylight (highlighed in this post: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/326593-a-few-words-about%E2%84%A2-halloween-35th-anniversary-in-blu-ray/page-2#entry4003461), this certainly seems to be the case since the grass on the ground is still green on the 1999 DVD. Had the color been shifted across the entire frame (as would have happend via traditional photochemical color-timing in 1978), the green of the grass would have been gone, too.

Vincent

 

[Vincent_P]

And William Friedkin swore up, down, left and right that he always intended The French Connection to be tinted purple, like the first Blu-ray release - until he reissued it later without the purple tint and suddenly claimed that he never intended it to be purple, and insisted that it was all somebody else's fault, even though we have him on camera saying that he wanted it tinted purple.

When did Friedkin say he wanted THE FRENCH CONNECTION to be "tinted purple"? He did say he wanted a muted "pastel" look akin to the 1950s version of MOBY DICK, but he never said anything about "purple", and the problems with the first Blu-ray certainly had nothing to do with it being "purple". The main issue was the technique he used to achieve the look he said he wanted caused really awful color bleeding, especially in the reds.

Vincent

 

[Vincent_P]

It really isn't my intent to be some sort of voice of opposition here. I just don't have that much invested in the movie. However, Devil's Advocate once again, supposing that Cundey had originally wanted to color time the movie in the lab to give it orange and gold shadings back in 1978, isn't what you describe (the entire scene being shifted to those colors) exactly what the theatrical prints would have looked like?

Except they don't. The scene highlighted here- http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/326593-a-few-words-about%E2%84%A2-halloween-35th-anniversary-in-blu-ray/page-2#entry4003461 - shows that the grass is still green while the color of the leaves in the trees has been changed, something only possible via digital color timing using picture windows.

Vincent

 

[FanboyZ]

Except they don't. The scene highlighted here- http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/326593-a-few-words-about%E2%84%A2-halloween-35th-anniversary-in-blu-ray/page-2#entry4003461 - shows that the grass is still green while the color of the leaves in the tress has been changed, something only possible via digital color timing using picture windows.

Vincent

To put it another way: a color gel that only turns some leaves brownish, would be a very special gel.