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Jay_Z_525

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I'm not buying it. I went back and listened to both songs in question tonight and I just refuse to believe it. The singing voice matches June's speaking voice too much. I'm not saying Patt Hyatt didn't perhaps help with the sweeter notes that June maybe couldn't achieve (it's conceivable) but at least some of both of those songs is her natural voice. The opening verse of "Best Thing in Life" is basically talk-singing anyway and there's no way it's anyone else. The singing voice in both of those songs has no more than a casual similarity to Patt's voice in the clip above.
I didn’t believe it either- until I heard the singing in “Her Highness and the Bellboy”, whether it’s June or Patt, it’s the same singing voice in both. I’d like to believe it’s as you say, Patt added into the song where needed. I’d be really curious to see the MGM music cue sheets.
 

Will Krupp

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Well those two songs are a sweeter style than she was known to sing in so it's kind of believable on its face but I'll be goddamned if I can tell where one starts and the other picks up, if at all.

I've never seen HER HIGNESS AND THE BELLBOY, truth be told.

But even Kathryn Grayson had her final B flat dubbed by another singer in the "There's Beauty Everywhere" finale of ZIEGFELD FOLLIES!
 
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CJamesCook

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RAH wrote:
Very much akin to a 35mm dye transfer print. Perfect color representations, grain structure. Overall resolution and registration are terrific.

In restoring Gone with the Wind, it was discovered (by Grover Crisp?) that pin-registration alignment of the three negatives could be inadequate. So, new software tools were invented for alignment, 2D warping, and 3D warping. This begs the question: Do all restorations use these tools? Or is it only as budget permits? Or are these tools unique and exclusive to studio that originally requested them?
 

titch

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RAH wrote:


In restoring Gone with the Wind, it was discovered (by Grover Crisp?) that pin-registration alignment of the three negatives could be inadequate. So, new software tools were invented for alignment, 2D warping, and 3D warping. This begs the question: Do all restorations use these tools? Or is it only as budget permits? Or are these tools unique and exclusive to studio that originally requested them?
Robert Harris previously provided this link to Silver Salt's restoration of the three strip Technicolor negatives for the StudioCanal release of The Ladykillers. It is an expensive and time-consuming process.

 

Jay_Z_525

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Well those two songs are a sweeter style than she was known to sing in so it's kind of believable on its face but I'll be goddamned if I can tell where one starts and the other picks up, if at all.

I've never seen HER HIGNESS AND THE BELLBOY, truth be told.

But even Kathryn Grayson had her final B flat dubbed by another singer in the "There's Beauty Everywhere" finale of ZIEGFELD FOLLIES!
I hadn’t seen HHATB in a long time, a quick search brought up the full movie, and the song I mention starts at the hour and two minute mark. Interestingly enough, it sounds like whomever is singing it is forcing something. It could be the power of suggestion on my part, but if you get a chance to listen, see what you think.

Anyway, getting back to GN, the first time I saw it was when my father rented it from our little corner video store, here in Philly. As a kid, I loved this movie, and the Blu-ray brings all of that excitement back. Regardless of who’s singing what, it’s a hell of a good time.
 

roxy1927

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The raspiness is part of its charm which she has by the mile and is why she's featured in those composer bios singing Cleopatterer and Thou Swell.

I was watching on youtube the intro to Good News from TCM featuring Osborne and the author of Charles Walters' bio. They talk about how wonderful Walters' work is but they don't mention Robert Alton's sensational choreography which is pretty much why Good News and Easter Parade are Walters' two best musicals.
I showed Pass That Peace Pipe to a friend and he dismissed it as silly. I could have throttled him.
 

CJamesCook

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Robert Harris previously provided this link to Silver Salt's restoration of the three strip Technicolor negatives for the StudioCanal release of The Ladykillers. It is an expensive and time-consuming process.

Great article. Just reinforces the work and cost involved in doing an A+ job (plus new details about color). It still begs the question of how many scans of 3-strip Technicolor negatives are able to afford this level of attention. I'm curious to hear a percentage assigned to relative quality levels if anyone has authoritative knowledge.
 

Will Krupp

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Great article.
Yes, but at the risk of sounding like an old grump, it irritates and leaves me totally cold when an article purporting to educate people contains something as vague and misleading as: "These images would be passed through a prism which was filtered to capture red, green or blue light and split the beam into Yellow-Cyan-Magenta (YCM)." The first part of the quote makes it sound as though the prism was doing the filtering (it wasn't,) and it was really only the the green and red light that needed filtering anyway. I can live with that, I guess, but the YCM dyes were a product of making positive prints (on matrix stock.) The green negative (showing the existence of green) was turned into a positive (showing the absence of green since light values are now reversed) so it was dyed the other two primary colors, red and blue, the combination of which is magenta. In camera, the RGB values and the eventual YCM values are sourced from the same information and the "beam" is split into RGB only.

And yes, I'm aware that I sound like a cantankerous grouch but it's important to get it right if people are going to read it and take it to heart. Otherwise, it just confuses people.
 
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Robert Harris

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Yes, but at the risk of sounding like an old grump, it irritates and leaves me totally cold when an article purporting to educate people contains something as vague and misleading as: "These images would be passed through a prism which was filtered to capture red, green or blue light and split the beam into Yellow-Cyan-Magenta (YCM)." The first part of the quote makes it sound as though the prism was doing the filtering (it wasn't,) and it was really only the the green and red light that needed filtering anyway. I can live with that, I guess, but the YCM dyes were a product of making positive prints (on matrix stock.) The green negative (showing the existence of green) was turned into a positive (showing the absence of green since light values are now reversed) so it was dyed the other two primary colors, red and blue, the combination of which is magenta. In camera, the RGB values and the eventual YCM values are sourced from the same information and the "beam" is split into RGB only.

And yes, I'm aware that I sound like a cantankerous grouch but it's important to get it right if people are going to read it and take it to heart. Otherwise, it just confuses people.
If I'm recalling correctly, there was one beam splitter, and one bi-pack, with the cyan negative behind one of the others, which is why reds are always soft, and imprecise as to registration.

The liquid dyes would cover the problem, as the overall image was soft.
 

Will Krupp

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If I'm recalling correctly, there was one beam splitter, and one bi-pack, with the cyan negative behind one of the others, which is why reds are always soft, and imprecise as to registration.

The liquid dyes would cover the problem, as the overall image was soft.

Both the red and blue records were less precise than the green because the light for those two records was reflected by the prism/beam splitter at a 45 degree angle and the light for both had to travel through the base of the blue record as they were sandwiched together in bi-pack. In positive printing, the blue record (yellow dye) was further compromised because it had to be flipped to match the other two.
 
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John Skoda

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I’m curious- who does the soundtrack list as having sung “The Best Things in Life Are Free” and “Just Imagine”? Supposedly June Allyson was dubbed by Patt Hyatt on these songs. I don’t want to believe that as this sounds so much like June, down to the rasp.
The CD says June Allyson sings both songs, and these CD releases are meticulous about identifying dubbers. It's odd to see that article on the TCM page, when this is a TCM CD!

Allyson was sometimes dubbed, but I don't think that's the case in this movie.
 

Jay_Z_525

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The CD says June Allyson sings both songs, and these CD releases are meticulous about identifying dubbers. It's odd to see that article on the TCM page, when this is a TCM CD!

Allyson was sometimes dubbed, but I don't think that's the case in this movie.
This makes me feel better! I trust this before I’d follow the TCM article. Another question, from what sources were the recordings sourced for the CD? The Blu-ray doesn’t have the recording sessions as a bonus, so if the CD were taken from those, then I want to hunt down a copy!
 

JoelA

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This makes me feel better! I trust this before I’d follow the TCM article. Another question, from what sources were the recordings sourced for the CD? The Blu-ray doesn’t have the recording sessions as a bonus, so if the CD were taken from those, then I want to hunt down a copy!

For the Rhino Handmade cd release most of the tracks used were from the original MGM recording sessions. This cd has been out of print for some time. I just checked Amazon and third party sellers have used copies starting at $50.00 and a new one at $189.99. Ouch! Glad I bought mine when I did.
 

John Skoda

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These Rhino/MGM soundtrack CDs are all worth having just for the information in the booklets. Some were widely available in stores (MEET ME IN ST. LOUIS), but others (like this one and THE PIRATE) were numbered, limited editions of 2500.
 

Jay_Z_525

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These Rhino/MGM soundtrack CDs are all worth having just for the information in the booklets. Some were widely available in stores (MEET ME IN ST. LOUIS), but others (like this one and THE PIRATE) were numbered, limited editions of 2500.
I wish I bought more of these when they were originally available. I have the Mickey/Judy set, The Wizard of Oz, Ziegfeld Follies, Meet Me in St. Louis, but they fell off my radar after a while.
 

TJPC

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I'm probably somewhat responsible for their demise. I have most of these Rinos, but they are copies I made from the public library originals. I found our library system had a form to fill out and would take suggestions for purchase. If enough people asked for a particular title they would buy it. I found, to my delight, that just about anything I suggested was bought. A couple of years later my daughter got a part time job at our branch. A girl there was talking to her and asked if I was her father. This employee was an old student of mine, and ran the acquisition department! She was also a fan, so anything I suggested was acquired. I didn't have luck with my suggestions, just corruption!
 

JoelA

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I wish I bought more of these when they were originally available. I have the Mickey/Judy set, The Wizard of Oz, Ziegfeld Follies, Meet Me in St. Louis, but they fell off my radar after a while.
Rhino's first soundtrack releases in the mid-90s were readily available in retail establishments, but the later releases under the Rhino Handmade label were only available from Rhino itself and as John said above they were limited editions. The final releases (Deep in My Heart and The Boy Friend) were only available as digital downloads through iTunes as I recall. The Belle of New York was intended as a Handmade release and was released by Film Score Monthly eventually. There was talk of High Society being released which never happened. I'd love to have that in stereo with the underscoring included.

Back to the topic of this thread. The Blu-ray presentation of Good News is magnificent! I hope it sells well enough to keep this trend of 3-strip Technicolor film releases ongoing.
 

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