UHD Review A Few Words About A few words about...™ - Funny Girl -- in 4k UHD (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

Criterion's new 4k UHD release of William Wyler's Funny Girl is reference quality.

And it all begins with the extraordinary cinematography of the incomparable Harry Stradling, who dealt so meticulously with light and shadow, the delicacy of colors and rich, rich blacks, as only the dye transfer process could reproduce fully.

After Funny Girl, Mr. Stradling became the go to for Barbra Streisand projects.

One of his signature attributes was his use of filtration via black silk, which he also used on My Fair Lady. One look at close-ups in this film and you'll understand.

I'm not certain of condition of the OCN, but one might presume a certain amount of wear, as the element was used to strike every 70mm print. But any damage that might have been done, is nowhere to be seen.

Color is revelatory, and fully reminiscent of original dye transfer prints. Audio, in DTS-HD MA 5.0 is letter perfect.

Grain is perfectly reproduced. Black levels pop off the screen as they did on original prints.

Take one look at the fur (is it leopard) being worn by Ms Streisand in the opening, by NY's Reiss & Fabrizio, and you'll understand how important the use of color and black in in this film.

I cannot say enough positive things about this release.

In typical Criterion fashion, a cornucopia of extras.

Image (Dolby Vision)

Forensic - 10
NSD - 10

Audio – 10 (DTS-HD MA 5.0)

Pass / Fail – Pass

Plays nicely with projectors - Yes

Makes use of and works well in 4k - 8

Upgrade from Blu-ray - Yes

Worth your attention - Absolutely

Slipcover rating - n/a

Looks like Film - 10

Very Highly Recommended


RAH

 

[trajan007]

I believe its the same transfer on Prime which is mind blowing. They cut out the overture on Prime.

 

[Robert Harris]

I believe its the same transfer on Prime which is mind blowing. They cut out the overture on Prime.

Intact on disc.

 

[dukiejosh54]

I believe its the same transfer on Prime which is mind blowing. They cut out the overture on Prime.

The only downside about the version streaming on Prime is that it doesn't include HDR or Dolby Vision.

 

[ahollis]

Watched my copy tonight. It is Gorgeous. I feel as if I’m watching it for the first time. By the way my first time was in San Francisco at the Coronet Theatre. A wonderful place to see it, but I was too young to enjoy the venue.

 

[Indy Guy]

Tonight was a very disappointing end to many years of waiting. If only Sony had put Funny Girl in a Columbia boxed set instead of giving this gem to Criterion.
My experience tonight was totally at odds with what has been said above. Perhaps if you did not do an AB conparison with the 2013 Blu Ray the new 4K disc would pass due to a slight improvement in clarity. The 4K harvest is from the same 2013 restoration which made for a spectacular blu ray back in the day.
Criterian's 4K when projected delivers very disappointing color, a slight uptick in clarity and very minimal improvement in sound due to higher bit rate.
After watching the entire 4K disc with a Lumagen processor trying to do its best while I performed manual tweaks to enhance the color, I decided to run the 3 standout Technicolor scenes from the 2013 blu ray while the 4K viewing was still fresh in my mind.
All three scenes are shockingly better on the old disc!
The Rollerskate Rag delivers intense violet and purple colors, while the grape clusters on the girls dresses look edible on the older disc rather than dull artificials in 4K.
The Most Beautiful Bride number is meant to be a field day for variations of white. On the 4K all cooler white variants are filtered through a dull cream tint. This is evident through the entire Criterian 4K but most noticeable during this extravagance of white.
You Are Woman is staged in a stunning red on red room where the fainting couch is meant to be a rich red velvet instead of a sun faded remnant of what was intended. Again, Streisand's pastel purple contrasts beautifully against the powerful pure red setting of the 2013 BR.
Throughout the 4K version Sharif looks like he just came in from filming Lawrence of Arabia when the color is boosted enough to approach the more natural tones of the older BR.
I suppose these problems could be isolated to projection, but in no way would I say that this 4K "plays nicely with projectors"... especially in comparison to the beautifully balanced color of the older BR disc. I can't see ever selecting the Criterian 4K for a future viewing when I know how beautiful it looks on the older pressing.

 

[titch]

Tonight was a very disappointing end to many years of waiting. If only Sony had put Funny Girl in a Columbia boxed set instead of giving this gem to Criterion.
My experience tonight was totally at odds with what has been said above. Perhaps if you did not do an AB conparison with the 2013 Blu Ray the new 4K disc would pass due to a slight improvement in clarity. The 4K harvest is from the same 2013 restoration which made for a spectacular blu ray back in the day.
Criterian's 4K when projected delivers very disappointing color, a slight uptick in clarity and very minimal improvement in sound due to higher bit rate.
After watching the entire 4K disc with a Lumagen processor trying to do its best while I performed manual tweaks to enhance the color, I decided to run the 3 standout Technicolor scenes from the 2013 blu ray while the 4K viewing was still fresh in my mind.
All three scenes are shockingly better on the old disc!
The Rollerskate Rag delivers intense violet and purple colors, while the grape clusters on the girls dresses look edible on the older disc rather than dull artificials in 4K.
The Most Beautiful Bride number is meant to be a field day for variations of white. On the 4K all cooler white variants are filtered through a dull cream tint. This is evident through the entire Criterian 4K but most noticeable during this extravagance of white.
You Are Woman is staged in a stunning red on red room where the fainting couch is meant to be a rich red velvet instead of a sun faded remnant of what was intended. Again, Streisand's pastel purple contrasts beautifully against the powerful pure red setting of the 2013 BR.
Throughout the 4K version Sharif looks like he just came in from filming Lawrence of Arabia when the color is boosted enough to approach the more natural tones of the older BR.
I suppose these problems could be isolated to projection, but in no way would I say that this 4K "plays nicely with projectors"... especially in comparison to the beautifully balanced color of the older BR disc. I can't see ever selecting the Criterian 4K for a future viewing when I know how beautiful it looks on the older pressing.

Could it be your set-up? I've come to be a bit wary of people posting negative reviews, as regards to the colour or contrast of 4K discs, compared to blu-rays. Eight years after the introduction of the format, such problems still seem invariably due to the equipment and settings used. Even Robert Harris has had snafus before - remember It's a Wonderful Life?

 

[Robin9]

Tonight was a very disappointing end to many years of waiting. If only Sony had put Funny Girl in a Columbia boxed set instead of giving this gem to Criterion.
My experience tonight was totally at odds with what has been said above. Perhaps if you did not do an AB conparison with the 2013 Blu Ray the new 4K disc would pass due to a slight improvement in clarity. The 4K harvest is from the same 2013 restoration which made for a spectacular blu ray back in the day.
Criterian's 4K when projected delivers very disappointing color, a slight uptick in clarity and very minimal improvement in sound due to higher bit rate.
After watching the entire 4K disc with a Lumagen processor trying to do its best while I performed manual tweaks to enhance the color, I decided to run the 3 standout Technicolor scenes from the 2013 blu ray while the 4K viewing was still fresh in my mind.
All three scenes are shockingly better on the old disc!
The Rollerskate Rag delivers intense violet and purple colors, while the grape clusters on the girls dresses look edible on the older disc rather than dull artificials in 4K.
The Most Beautiful Bride number is meant to be a field day for variations of white. On the 4K all cooler white variants are filtered through a dull cream tint. This is evident through the entire Criterian 4K but most noticeable during this extravagance of white.
You Are Woman is staged in a stunning red on red room where the fainting couch is meant to be a rich red velvet instead of a sun faded remnant of what was intended. Again, Streisand's pastel purple contrasts beautifully against the powerful pure red setting of the 2013 BR.
Throughout the 4K version Sharif looks like he just came in from filming Lawrence of Arabia when the color is boosted enough to approach the more natural tones of the older BR.
I suppose these problems could be isolated to projection, but in no way would I say that this 4K "plays nicely with projectors"... especially in comparison to the beautifully balanced color of the older BR disc. I can't see ever selecting the Criterian 4K for a future viewing when I know how beautiful it looks on the older pressing.

Very interesting because I've just watched the Criterion 4K disc of Le Samouri and I found the colors there were hugely subdued.

 

[titch]

Very interesting because I've just watched the Criterion 4K disc of Le Samouri and I found the colors there were hugely subdued.

The blu-ray was far too bright. Pathé regraded the 4K restoration, with a cooler colour palette. It's a faithful presentation - looks exactly the same as the DCP. The palette is naturally mostly dour.

 

[Robin9]

The blu-ray was far too bright. Pathé regraded the 4K restoration, with a cooler colour palette. It's a faithful presentation - looks exactly the same as the DCP. The palette is naturally mostly dour.

Do you know what the first run prints in France looked like? I want a 4K disc which presents the film like that. I agree the colors on the Blu-ray seem wrong and that's why I bought the 4K disc!

 

[Robert Harris]

Mr. Crawford might kindly request that you bring the discussion back to Funny Girl, and the abhorrent color, densities and black and white levels.

Something seems amiss here, as that is not what I’m seeing. And I’m just running the C disc though normal gear.

It beautifully mimics my dye transfer mag. Columbia just doesn’t get these things wrong.

 

[madfloyd]

Intrigued by Indy Guy's post, I checked out this film on my rig.

I have a projector setup (and also use a Lumagen) and first viewed it with Dolby Vision. Then I viewed it with HDR. Finally I watched a 4k SDR version (almost 1/3 the bit rate) and I found all 3 to be extremely similar - not just in color but detail.

Whites look white. Colors are very nice. Grain is very present. Some scenes are soft (or lack detail) but not unexpected.

I don't have a 2k bluray to compare with but I don't see anything that looks 'off' in any way.

 

[Robert Harris]

Intrigued by Indy Guy's post, I checked out this film on my rig.

I have a projector setup (and also use a Lumagen) and first viewed it with Dolby Vision. Then I viewed it with HDR. Finally I watched a 4k SDR version (almost 1/3 the bit rate) and I found all 3 to be extremely similar - not just in color but detail.

Whites look white. Colors are very nice. Grain is very present. Some scenes are soft (or lack detail) but not unexpected.

I don't have a 2k bluray to compare with but I don't see anything that looks 'off' in any way.

Certain shots are captured through black silk.

 

[madfloyd]

Certain shots are captured through black silk.

Well that's very interesting. I haven't heard of that technique before; was it common?

 

[Indy Guy]

Could it be your set-up? I've come to be a bit wary of people posting negative reviews, as regards to the colour or contrast of 4K discs, compared to blu-rays. Eight years after the introduction of the format, such problems still seem invariably due to the equipment and settings used. Even Robert Harris has had snafus before - remember It's a Wonderful Life?

I bought the Lumagen processor to help compensate for 4K HDR limits of projection. Paramount is notorious in how they process their 4K upgrades to not appear as bright and colorful as their older BR counterparts. (Blue Hawaii and White Christmas being examples of this). While Funny Girl is not as subdued as those titles, I would be surprised if anyone thought the color on Funny Girl was as strong and natural as the 2013 BR.
I wonder if some digital transfer artists are resisting the transfer of vibrant color in older films...toning them down to match today's blander aesthics?

 

[Indy Guy]

Intrigued by Indy Guy's post, I checked out this film on my rig.

I have a projector setup (and also use a Lumagen) and first viewed it with Dolby Vision. Then I viewed it with HDR. Finally I watched a 4k SDR version (almost 1/3 the bit rate) and I found all 3 to be extremely similar - not just in color but detail.

Whites look white. Colors are very nice. Grain is very present. Some scenes are soft (or lack detail) but not unexpected.

I don't have a 2k bluray to compare with but I don't see anything that looks 'off' in any way.

I found it "off" only in comparison to the superior color and punch of the 2013 BR.

 

[aPhil]

Well that's very interesting. I haven't heard of that technique before; was it common?

Stretching some fabric behind the lens, that is, the rear of the lens (as well as sometimes in front) was not uncommon. It can look really good for certain projects, but I'm not a fan.

In my opinion, it was way overused in the late 1970s and early 1980s. When working as a camera assistant, I had to attach such material to the rear of a lens on a few commercials of the early 1980s and a coupled stylized scenes for a movie or two.

In 2013, I saw a DP that did that technique with an Arri Alexa
(yes, for a digitally shot movie, not film), and it looked terrible,
but the Director let him get away with it. The Director regretted not stopping it once he saw the final completed film — Yeah, more than a bit late.

 

[madfloyd]

Stretching some fabric behind the lens, that is, the rear of the lens (as well as sometimes in front) was not uncommon. It can look really good for certain projects, but I'm not a fan.

In my opinion, it was way overused in the late 1970s and early 1980s. When working as a camera assistant, I had to attach such material to the rear of a lens on a few commercials of the early 1980s and a coupled stylized scenes for a movie or two.

In 2013, I saw a DP that did that technique with an Arri Alexa
(yes, for a digitally shot movie, not film), and it looked terrible,
but the Director let him get away with it. The Director regretted not stopping it once he saw the final completed film — Yeah, more than a bit late.

Interesting. You would think with digital you could see the results instantly and avoid this sort of thing.

I don't suppose you could give us a hint about what movie it was?

 

[aPhil]

Interesting. You would think with digital you could see the results instantly and avoid this sort of thing.

I don't suppose you could give us a hint about what movie it was?

Yes, you could see the results instantly, but strange things happen when in production, and sometimes good logic just does not happen.
I'll avoid giving the title since even 11 or 12 years ago still seems "too soon."

 

[Robert Harris]

Stretching some fabric behind the lens, that is, the rear of the lens (as well as sometimes in front) was not uncommon. It can look really good for certain projects, but I'm not a fan.

In my opinion, it was way overused in the late 1970s and early 1980s. When working as a camera assistant, I had to attach such material to the rear of a lens on a few commercials of the early 1980s and a coupled stylized scenes for a movie or two.

In 2013, I saw a DP that did that technique with an Arri Alexa
(yes, for a digitally shot movie, not film), and it looked terrible,
but the Director let him get away with it. The Director regretted not stopping it once he saw the final completed film — Yeah, more than a bit late.

Mr. Willis, who had worked with Mr. Stradling, explained the concept. Also used for MFL.