A Few Words About A few words about...™ Dial "M" for Murder (Take Two) -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[John Hermes]

Which Optima projector is that?

It is an older one, an HD80. I don't know, but I would imagine their higher up newer models (HD8200, HD8300, HD8600, and HD87) would likely have 6x wheels.

 

[Robin9]

It is an older one, an HD80. I don't know, but I would imagine their higher up newer models (HD8200, HD8300, HD8600, and HD87) would likely have 6x wheels.

Thank you. (I'm looking to upgrade my projector in the near future and I have a high opinion of Optima)

 

[Mark-P]

If you are sensitive to the rainbow effect (some people aren't) then you will probably need to steer clear of any DLP projector which uses a color wheel, and that would be practically all consumer DLP projectors. The only DLPs that don't use a color wheel are three-chip DLPs and those cost tens of thousands of dollars.

You guys can basically disregard this advice I gave. Apparently DLP technology has drastically improved since I had my last DLP projector and there are many new models that have virtually eliminated the RBE. So happy hunting!

 

[Michel_Hafner]

I'm glad when 3D BDs are mastered like 2D with no compensation attempted for lacking 3D hardware (grading, ghost busting...) . I don't want to buy new versions when the hardware improves, as it will eventually.
I have seen 3D at 14 ftl with laser projection. This kind of technology will become available for cinemas and home cinemas. I expect my 3D discs to work with it properly.

 

[Ken_McAlinden]

/t/324058/a-few-words-about-dial-m-for-murder-take-two-in-blu-ray#post_3984975
The "ringing" are analogue anomalies found in dupes, as made in 1953-4, and there is no way around them.

They looked as horrible then, as they do now.

Duping to early separation stock, and back to camera negative, was simply way things had to be done at that time...

if one was going to create a single strand negative, which was a necessity of the Warner Color direct positive printing process.

RAH

Probably the all-time Warnercolor halo/ringing champion is George Stevens' "Giant" from 1956. Not only did nearly every scene transition include a cross fade, but the dupe stock was used for the entire passage from the last cut before the shot that crossfades out all the way to the end of the first shot that crossfades in. The shots before and after the fades were frequently quite long takes as was Stevens' style.

 

[Yorkshire]

Two projectors for home viewing?
That is not an answer.

For what it's worth, SIM2 produce a high end DLP projector which can be hooked up with a 2nd unit for extra brightness, and I believe they've developed this as an answer to the 3D brightness problem.
I think it's a solution best described as 'quite expensive'.
Steve W

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Ken_McAlinden /t/324058/a-few-words-about-dial-m-for-murder-take-two-in-blu-ray/30#post_3985728

Probably the all-time Warnercolor halo/ringing champion is George Stevens' "Giant" from 1956. Not only did nearly every scene transition include a cross fade, but the dupe stock was used for the entire passage from the last cut before the shot that crossfades out all the way to the end of the first shot that crossfades in. The shots before and after the fades were frequently quite long takes as was Stevens' style.

As I recall there is at least one dupe section that runs almost 200 feet.

 

[haineshisway]

Probably the all-time Warnercolor halo/ringing champion is George Stevens' "Giant" from 1956.  Not only did nearly every scene transition include a cross fade, but the dupe stock was used for the entire passage from the last cut before the shot that crossfades out all the way to the end of the first shot that crossfades in.   The shots before and after the fades were frequently quite long takes as was Stevens' style.

The real shame is the reviewer there blames it on the transfer. Sorry, if the transfer is replicating what the film has always looked like, then the transfer is doing its job.

 

[Reed Grele]

Have now watched the complete film in 3D on my Panny plasma 65". I'm afraid that RAH is correct. The 3D is a bit darker than the 2D. I also noticed ghosting in most every scene, appearing off to the left of the main image. Has anyone else noticed this?
The picture had much better depth than I expected. And having heard that Hitchcock did not intend this to be a "pop -out" experience, it certainly isn't flat. The 3D effect was used to great advantage in almost every shot. Compositions must have been carefully worked out, and the results are very pleasing.
I'll watch it next on my 120" screen, and see if it looks any different. If the same ghosting is present, I can try an adjustment that the LCD projector offers that the plasma does not. Of course, that's a trade off as well, and will only move the ghosting to a different plane. But it will be an interesting experiment.
No complaints with the 2D transfer, but the 3D version really needs to be improved.

 

[Steve Tannehill]

I watched the 3D version tonight on my Mitsubishi DLP WD-73838 and had no issues with it--no ghosting, only a little dark in places, especially when Swan is walking outside in the dark towards the flat.
I was expecting the worst, and ended up being very pleased.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Am I crazy, or is the shot that begins at 1:28:49 and ending at 1:30:20 not in 3D?
Most of the film is set back in the stereo window so without the glasses you see two images most times, but in this shot it looks like everything is 2D with and without glasses, except for a weird splitting during the jiggle of a move at 1:29:11 - watch with no glasses to really see it, with glasses on it looks like an odd distortion.
Could this be a place where they only had one eye? If so, they should have done a conversion as its a lengthy shot and very noticeable that its not in depth.

 

[Bob Furmanek]

Our new article is now on the website. We present our review of the new Blu-ray plus the background and history on this landmark 3-D production. We also clear up a few long-standing myths along the way!
http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/dial-m-blu-ray-review
Greg Kintz and I hope you will enjoy it.
Bob

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Originally Posted by Moe Dickstein /t/324058/a-few-words-about-dial-m-for-murder-take-two-in-blu-ray/30#post_3986629
Am I crazy, or is the shot that begins at 1:28:49 and ending at 1:30:20 not in 3D?
Most of the film is set back in the stereo window so without the glasses you see two images most times, but in this shot it looks like everything is 2D with and without glasses, except for a weird splitting during the jiggle of a move at 1:29:11 - watch with no glasses to really see it, with glasses on it looks like an odd distortion.
Could this be a place where they only had one eye? If so, they should have done a conversion as its a lengthy shot and very noticeable that its not in depth.

Your answer is on Bob's Dial M article, about 3/4 of the way down. See linky above.

 

[rsmithjr]

Bob,
Thanks very much for this article about Dial M.
I remember reading decades ago that Dial M had not been released in 3D. This was perpetuated when it was briefly released about 1980. Nice to have this history really cleared up.
The Warner Color information is also very helpful. It sets a context for modern reviewers who would complain about the Blu-ray without understanding the problems. The dups and very bad special effects shots were visible the first time I saw the film (about 1961).
Is there any reason to think that Hitchcock had any conscious realization of the problems with Warner Color? We know, of course, that he was on his way to Paramount with its vistaVision and dye-transfer Technicolor solution.
I also felt that the 185 works very nicely on the Blu-ray. All of my 35mm viewings have been 133, which is also OK. I had worried that some of the framing would not be optimal, but it is just fine.

 

[Moe Dickstein]

Your answer is on Bob's Dial M article, about 3/4 of the way down. See linky above.

Yeah I saw it, great piece - though it hadn't yet been posted when I inquired

 

[Michel_Hafner]

The "ringing" are analogue anomalies found in dupes, as made in 1953-4, and there is no way around them.
RAH

Ringing is in " for a good reason, by the way. Technically speaking it's no ringing at all. Ringing does not look like that and it also not caused by the kind of process that caused the artifact.

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Michel_Hafner /t/324058/a-few-words-about-dial-m-for-murder-take-two-in-blu-ray/30#post_3988013
Ringing is in " for a good reason, by the way. Technically speaking it's no ringing at all. Ringing does not look like that and it also not caused by the kind of process that caused the artifact.

[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]Quite correct. Simply using the poster's terminology. It was known, early on, as the "Mackie line" effect. It was found in double dupes, and was a result of the "tanning effect" of the gelatin by the dichromate bleach along many edges separating light and dark areas of the image.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]I didn't want to go there.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]It can be seen in many early Eastman Color productions using dupes in post, or early replacement dupe sections that have not been upgraded as they should be.[/COLOR]

[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]Warner's lab was finally closed in 1958, with processing going to Technicolor. The facility ended up supporting Technicolor's foray into [/COLOR]amateur photography processing. If you find old prints, slides, etc. with the name Technicolor on them, this is where they would be have processed.



[COLOR= rgb(0, 0, 255)]RAH[/COLOR]

 

[Osato]

Robert - How does the blu ray compare with the DVD? I do not have 3D and have been waiting to pick this title up. It's about $30 right now... Anyway. I've yet to finish the Universal Hitchcock blu ray set, so I have plenty to watch at the moment. I have also not picked up Strangers on a Train or the 3 Criterion titles. Just trying to prioritize a bit. Thanks!

 

[Robert Harris]

Originally Posted by Osato
Robert - How does the blu ray compare with the DVD? I do not have 3D and have been waiting to pick this title up. It's about $30 right now...
Anyway. I've yet to finish the Universal Hitchcock blu ray set, so I have plenty to watch at the moment. I have also not picked up Strangers on a Train or the 3 Criterion titles.
Just trying to prioritize a bit.
Thanks!

The 2D Blu-ray is a tad dark. In 3D, it verges on unwatchable.
RAH

 

[TravisR]

In 3D, it verges on unwatchable.

Dial M For Murder is playing near me (in 3-D) in a few weeks so would a DCP most likely also suffer from the same problems as the Blu-ray?