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Robert Crawford

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Again, Robert, unless I’m misunderstanding the release strategy, there are two different sets - a 3-disc and a 4-disc. They both include the Blu-ray of the film. The 4k is the fourth disc found only in the 4k / 4-disc set, which has different packaging.

How would late or non-4k upgraders be left out in the cold with the 4-disc set?

It seems that everyone gets a Blu-ray, whether they desire it or not.
The 4-disc set that offers one 4K disc and the three Blu-rays is meant for people that have upgraded to 4K, but still might want to watch the Blu-ray of the movie on their non-4K setups in their households. I'm one of those people that has three HT setups, but only 2 of them are 4K capable. As well as people that haven't upgrade to 4K yet, but either plan to or might do so in the future.

I don't quite understand why you have a problem with that issue???
 

Robert Harris

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The 4-disc set that offers one 4K disc and the three Blu-rays is meant for people that have upgraded to 4K, but still might want to watch the Blu-ray of the movie on their non-4K setups in their households. I'm one of those people that has three HT setups, but only 2 of them are 4K capable. As well as people that haven't upgrade to 4K yet, but either plan to or might do so in the future.

I don't quite understand why you have a problem with that issue???
Cost-effectiveness.
 

Robert Harris

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I'm sure Criterion has done some cost analysis and this is the most profitable option for them. It might not be for their customers, but when do companies make such decisions to our benefits?
Question.

What proportion of those who currently view only Blu-ray, would consider paying an additional $5 to be future-proofed?
 

Robert Crawford

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Question.

What proportion of those who currently view only Blu-ray, would consider paying an additional $5 to be future-proofed?
I don't have any idea and I don't think you do either. What I do know, but am unable to quantify is that some HTF members have purchased or might purchased the 4K release, but haven't upgraded their setups completely to 4K yet. Personally, if I wasn't 4K capable right now, but plan to do so in the future, I would purchase the 4K release.
 

Robert Harris

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I don't have any idea and I don't think you do either. What I do know, but am unable to quantify is that some HTF members have purchased or might purchased the 4K release, but haven't upgraded their setups completely to 4K yet. Personally, if I wasn't 4K capable right now, but plan to do so in the future, I would purchase the 4K release.
As would most people currently between upgrades, and running 4k to an HD display.
 

JediFonger

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lets not forget of course one of the primary reasons for criterion is extras/bonus and thus far the majority of 4k releases have not ported onto 4k discs and left it on blurays. the only title i have seen port most/all is super 8 which has been a 4k disc only.
 

tenia

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Even if offering the DF set at a slighlty lower price, people not interested by 4k would say "ah, but why not offering a cheaper set without the UHD for those not interested by it ?"
By doing so, they're demonstratively offering a cheaper option because yes, humans are irrational this way and need that.
 

Paul Penna

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Question.

What proportion of those who currently view only Blu-ray, would consider paying an additional $5 to be future-proofed?
For me the cost differential would not be an issue for a 4k/Blu-ray combo, but what was on the Blu would be. If the 4k was derived from a new, significantly improved restoration or remaster I'd consider a purchase only if the Blu-ray was as well. For me, after going through over 40 years of multiple software and hardware upgrade cycles the urge has largely evaporated. If support for Blu-ray hardware and software persists as long as my eyeballs do, it's good enough for me.
 

cinemel1

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Watched 4K Citizen Kane twice with 2 different commentaries. Have started watching The Complete Citizen Kane documentary. It is comprehensive with interviews with Welles, R. Wise, R. Warwick, etc. Definitely worthy of the upgrade in video quality and the exceptional supplements that I have just begun to watch.
 

alstein

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Hi.
Unfortunately, in addition to the known issue with the blu ray, which has been addressed by Criterion, I find that my 4K blu ray is also defective. When I removed the disk from the case and inserted into my Panasonic UB-820 4k player, a message appeared on my screen saying that the disc wasn't compatible. I removed the disc and noticed some finger prints on the disc that I removed with a soft cloth. The disc then started correctly. By the way, the packaging of the set is beautiful, but a significant negative is that I found it almost impossible to remove any of the 4 discs without grasping both sides and leaving fingerprints.
The 4k blu ray played flawlessly up until approximately 46 or 47 minutes into the film. Then it began stuttering and jerking and then just froze. I tried to play the disc again, and the problem recurred in the same spot. I’ve since returned the disc to Amazon.
 

Robert Harris

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Hi.
Unfortunately, in addition to the known issue with the blu ray, which has been addressed by Criterion, I find that my 4K blu ray is also defective. When I removed the disk from the case and inserted into my Panasonic UB-820 4k player, a message appeared on my screen saying that the disc wasn't compatible. I removed the disc and noticed some finger prints on the disc that I removed with a soft cloth. The disc then started correctly. By the way, the packaging of the set is beautiful, but a significant negative is that I found it almost impossible to remove any of the 4 discs without grasping both sides and leaving fingerprints.
The 4k blu ray played flawlessly up until approximately 46 or 47 minutes into the film. Then it began stuttering and jerking and then just froze. I tried to play the disc again, and the problem recurred in the same spot. I’ve since returned the disc to Amazon.
I detected a similar problem, at what was perceived as a layer change.
 

Angelo Colombus

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In the last few days i decided to watch a few of Orson's films like The Trial, Mr. Arkadin, Macbeth, F For Fake and The Lady From Shanghai and this time around with the commentaries except for The Trial and had a great time. Tonight i will watch Kane on the 4k disc.
 

Nelson Au

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Thanks Luke.

Nelson gets the prize for calling it.

And kudos to Criterion. The first rather silly procedure was apparently an attempt to get a replacement policy out ASAP, and let their customers know they'd be taken care of. After a bit of thought, a better idea for all has prevailed.

Now that's the way to handle mistakes.

I was wishing that Criterion would make it easier to request a replacement disc! So its great they changed their mind for how to get a replacement! Makes me think of the Twilight Zone episode, The Big Tall Wish. :).

Though there is a part of me that cringes at the idea of destroying a perfectly good disc as part of the replacement request. Goes against my grain.

Question.

What proportion of those who currently view only Blu-ray, would consider paying an additional $5 to be future-proofed?

Count me as one whose been buying a lot of 4K discs for the last couple of years in anticipation to upgrading to a 4K display. And I finally upgraded 3 weeks ago!
 

JohnRice

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Though there is a part of me that cringes at the idea of destroying a perfectly good disc as part of the replacement request. Goes against my grain.
But it's NOT perfectly good. That's why it's being replaced.
 

JediFonger

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But it's NOT perfectly good. That's why it's being replaced.
my guess there is probably a legal reason to destroy it (rights holder wishes) but that also (not us of course) anyone could take the same disc and request free replacements in the future and unsavory folks selling disc1 on ebay, etc.
 

JoshZ

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Again, Robert, unless I’m misunderstanding the release strategy, there are two different sets - a 3-disc and a 4-disc. They both include the Blu-ray of the film. The 4k is the fourth disc found only in the 4k / 4-disc set, which has different packaging.

How would late or non-4k upgraders be left out in the cold with the 4-disc set?

It seems that everyone gets a Blu-ray, whether they desire it or not.

My point being, why not release the 4k set at a lower list price - let’s say $55, and be done with it? Street price, on sale would be a difference of $2.50, for which price everyone receives a 4k.

Thats fair… surely.

RAH, I think you're forgetting the brouhaha that erupted a few years back when Criterion moved to exclusively releasing Blu-ray/DVD combo packs without separate SKUs for each format. DVD-only fans refused to pay a few extra dollars for Blu-rays they didn't want, and Blu-ray fans were outraged by the inclusion of DVDs sullying their precious Criterion Blu-ray shelves. (They actually demanded the right to pay the same price for a copy without the DVD.) It didn't take long for Criterion to relent and separate the formats again.
 
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ManW_TheUncool

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RAH, I think you're forgetting the brouhaha that erupted a few years back when Criterion moved to exclusively releasing Blu-ray/DVD combo packs without separate SKUs for each format. DVD-only fans refused to pay a few extra dollars for Blu-rays they didn't want, and Blu-ray fans were outraged by the inclusion of DVDs sullying their precious Criterion Bluy-ray shelves. (They actually demanded the right to pay the same price for a copy without the DVD.) It didn't take long for Criterion to relent and separate the formats again.

And there may be far fewer people (fully) upgrading/upgraded to 4K discs than there were doing likewise for BD a decade ago... especially for the kind of titles Criterion typically offers...

IF it becomes warranted in the future, I'm sure Criterion will adjust as they've done in the past...

_Man_
 

Reed Grele

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Watched the 4K a few nights ago.

No playback issues at all on my Panasonic DP-UB820-K. And looking splendid projected on my 120" screen via the Sony 885ES.

Other than the short scene in the Thatcher Library that RAH described with the blown out white issue (which if I hadn't read about in his review, I probably would not have noticed) this is the best I've ever seen Kane look!
 

Nelson Au

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But it's NOT perfectly good. That's why it's being replaced.
Yes, the Blu ray disc content is not perfectly good. I just hate to break a disc. It would make for Great Wall art or can be made into drink coasters. I could scratch up the playing surface. :)
 
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