UHD Review A Few Words About A few words about...™ CITIZEN KANE -- in 4k UHD (1 Viewer)

[Michael Osadciw]

I want to be extremely clear that my negative comments on a couple of shots should not take center stage over an otherwise beautiful 4k release.

Absolutely and your point is clearly taken, even in the review. I'd encourage everyone to support releases like this.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

I want to be extremely clear that my negative comments on a couple of shots should not take center stage over an otherwise beautiful 4k release.

I was thinking of this thread when I saw the hue and cry over Kino's 4K The Great Escape not getting the HDR treatment.

Is it fair to say that there's not 4K of information on the surviving elements of Kane?

 

[Robert Harris]

I was thinking of this thread when I saw the hue and cry over Kino's 4K The Great Escape not getting the HDR treatment.

Is it fair to say that there's not 4K of information on the surviving elements of Kane?

I doubt that there's 2k, which is not to say that Criterion should not honor it with a full-out 4k release, regardless.

 

[JediFonger]

i know it’s apples&oranges but yet here we are citizen kane with dolby vision hdr. i still dont understand or comprehend if analog film has more or less colors than what hdr brings to the table… or is hdr simply a digital only feature but that certain stocks analog film can “record” more colors or certain ones “maxes out” at rec709 vs 2020

 

[rdimucci]

I doubt that there's 2k [for Citizen Kane], which is not to say that Criterion should not honor it with a full-out 4k release, regardless.

So I assume then that the primary differences between the 4K disc and the previous Warner Blu-ray will come from the new image harvest rather than the 4K resolution possibilities on the new disc.

 

[Lord Dalek]

Is it fair to say that there's not 4K of information on the surviving elements of Kane?

I think its fair to say there's not 4k worth of information on 70-80% of all movies made prior to 1986.

 

[ghostwind]

I'm no fan of HDR or DV, as I've stated in the past, but I do believe that 4K on resolution alone would not have sold if it didn't come packaged with either of them.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Well, I just preordered this 4K release at 50% off during Barnes & Noble's current Criterion sale. I ordered a couple of more Criterion 4K titles too.

 

[sbjork]

Well, I just preordered this 4K release at 50% off during Barnes & Noble's current Criterion sale. I ordered a couple of more Criterion 4K titles too.

Ach, sunavagun. I had missed the Criterion Flash Sale and actually wasn't too worried about that since I have such an insane backlog of discs to get through right now, but I hadn't noticed B&N's sale was going on as well, so I guess that opportunity knocked twice. It was nice that they let you get the discount on preorders, which Criterion doesn't always do, but it wouldn't give me the price for the UHD of A Hard Day's Night. At least I got orders in for Citizen Kane and Mulholland Drive.

 

[Blu_rayfan66]

Ach, sunavagun. I had missed the Criterion Flash Sale and actually wasn't too worried about that since I have such an insane backlog of discs to get through right now, but I hadn't noticed B&N's sale was going on as well, so I guess that opportunity knocked twice. It was nice that they let you get the discount on preorders, which Criterion doesn't always do, but it wouldn't give me the price for the UHD of A Hard Day's Night. At least I got orders in for Citizen Kane and Mulholland Drive.

Rumor is Fidelity In Motion are handling the encoding of the UK 'Mulholland Drive' StudioCanal 4K so may end up having a better transfer vs. the Criterion

 

[Robert Crawford]

Ach, sunavagun. I had missed the Criterion Flash Sale and actually wasn't too worried about that since I have such an insane backlog of discs to get through right now, but I hadn't noticed B&N's sale was going on as well, so I guess that opportunity knocked twice. It was nice that they let you get the discount on preorders, which Criterion doesn't always do, but it wouldn't give me the price for the UHD of A Hard Day's Night. At least I got orders in for Citizen Kane and Mulholland Drive.

Titles have to be released or are scheduled for released during the B&N sale for the sale discount to be applied.

 

[Blu_rayfan66]

Warner Bros. are releasing this in Europe in December- I wonder if the transfer will be identical to the Criterion 4K?

 

[sbjork]

Rumor is Fidelity In Motion are handling the encoding of the UK 'Mulholland Drive' StudioCanal 4K so may end up having a better transfer vs. the Criterion

StudioCanal is all over the map with their encodes. If that's the case, they may well indeed be better. If not, well. . .

I'm going to give Criterion a chance on this one. Fingers crossed, I would hope since they've dragged their feet so long on UHD, they won't take chances with their first few releases.

 

[david hare]

StudioCanal is all over the map with their encodes. If that's the case, they may well indeed be better. If not, well. . .

I'm going to give Criterion a chance on this one. Fingers crossed, I would hope since they've dragged their feet so long on UHD, they won't take chances with their first few releases.

All of Canal’s FIM encodes are flawless. I have absolutely no doubt that the FIM/Dave Mackenzie 4K encode for Canal will be perfect and trouble free. Given past history of the earlier 4K used by Criterion for their previous Blu Ray that 4K master was also done by Mackenzie and FIM for the rights holder Canal. So I am hoping the forthcoming Criterion 4K and the Canal 4K will be the same encode. It seems improbably to imagine Criterion and Lee Kline would just do another totally different encode.Or is it?

 

[david hare]

Also a postscript on Kane and the two shots Mr Harris references in his review. Now the happy owner of a new projector I’ve been trailing back over recent Blus of stuff that’s shortly due in UHD. When I played back the Warner Annversary BD of Kane I scoped right into the two sequences Mr Harris cites. Guess what, in both cases the shots are exactly the same visual issues as Mr Harris describes in the UHD. Cotton’s face is clearly if dimly recognizable in not the first but the second short wide shot of the group in the screening room, and the camera gives it a few seconds for his face to sink in. Diito the library AB shot, in which just as Mr Harris describes, the first shot closing into the page is fully flared out in white, with the B shot showing the text. It looks like these two shots‘ lighting values are either intentional or simply baked in, at least from the point of time when Warner did this earlier 4K restoration.

 

[sbjork]

Also a postscript on Kane and the two shots Mr Harris references in his review. Now the happy owner of a new projector I’ve been trailing back over recent Blus of stuff that’s shortly due in Blu. When I played back the Warner Annversary BD of Kane I scoped right into the two sequences Mr Harris cites. Guess what, in both cases the shots are exactly the same visual issues as Mr Harris describes in the UHD. Cotton’s face is clearly if dimly recognizable in not the first but the second short wide shot of the group in the screening room, and the camera gives it a few seconds for his face to sink in. Diito the library AB shot, in which just as Mr Harris describes, the first shot closing into the page is fully flared out in white, with the B shot showing the text. It looks like these two shots‘ lighting values are either intentional or simply baked in, at least from the point of time when Warner did this earlier 4K restoration.

Can't even remember from the last time I watched it, but now I'll make a point of putting my WB disc in tonight to check it out. It will be especially interesting to compare to the UHD, whenever that ships for me.

 

[sbjork]

All of Canal’s FIM encodes are flawless. I have absolutely no doubt that the FIM/Dave Mackenzie 4K encode for Canal will be perfect and trouble free. Given past history of the earlier 4K used by Criterion for their previous Blu Ray that 4K master was also done by Mackenzie and FIM for the rights holder Canal. So I am hoping the forthcoming Criterion 4K and the Canal 4K will be the same encode. It seems improbably to imagine Criterion and Lee Kline would just do another totally different encode.Or is it?

I agree about the FIM being flawless; I was just responding to the "rumor is" comment that the other poster made. If it's more than a rumor, and FIM is definitely handling it, then yes, it will be as perfect as possible. It's just that StudioCanal doesn't always use them, and when they don't, the results have been more problematic.

But yes, I can't imagine different encodes in this case, so either way, I'm banking on the Criterion being just fine.

 

[david hare]

Stephen The FIM "rumor" is certainly correct.

 

[Robert Harris]

Also a postscript on Kane and the two shots Mr Harris references in his review. Now the happy owner of a new projector I’ve been trailing back over recent Blus of stuff that’s shortly due in UHD. When I played back the Warner Annversary BD of Kane I scoped right into the two sequences Mr Harris cites. Guess what, in both cases the shots are exactly the same visual issues as Mr Harris describes in the UHD. Cotton’s face is clearly if dimly recognizable in not the first but the second short wide shot of the group in the screening room, and the camera gives it a few seconds for his face to sink in. Diito the library AB shot, in which just as Mr Harris describes, the first shot closing into the page is fully flared out in white, with the B shot showing the text. It looks like these two shots‘ lighting values are either intentional or simply baked in, at least from the point of time when Warner did this earlier 4K restoration.

I’m seeing writing on the manuscript page in the WB release. In distinct, but absolutely there. It’s blown out on the 4k. Both have the screening room shots timed too bright.

 

[titch]

All of Canal’s FIM encodes are flawless.

The Silver Salt restorations and mastering on StudioCanal's UHDs of The Ladykillers and The Servant are superb too.