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sbjork

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Yes. I don’t believe the film benefitted from the technology, especially since it’s all second and fourth generation.
Thanks. As an aside, have you updated to latest Theatre Optimizer firmware yet, and if so, have you noticed a gamma shift with the HDR on some black-and-white movies? I leave mine set to the Middle level for most films, though I occasionally adjust it to the High setting for some particularly dark films (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home being a case in point). However, with black-and-white films, when set to Mid, I'm seeing the slightest pinkish cast sometimes, especially around light sources. When I switch to High, it goes away. Previous iterations of their firmware didn't do that regardless of what level that the tone mapping was set to. I don't have Citizen Kane yet, but I just tried out Anatomy of a Murder, and it had that problem. With It's a Wonderful Life, the effect was strong enough that it bordered on looking like it was sepia toned. On High, it looks fine. Didn't change anything with my calibration when I updated the firmware, but regardless, there shouldn't be a gamma shift between levels like that.
 

ShellOilJunior

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I appreciate how this review is critical yet constructive and complimentary. It will be interesting to see how this release is received and how people take to the HDR. I'm looking forward to this release.
 
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Robert Harris

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Thanks. As an aside, have you updated to latest Theatre Optimizer firmware yet, and if so, have you noticed a gamma shift with the HDR on some black-and-white movies? I leave mine set to the Middle level for most films, though I occasionally adjust it to the High setting for some particularly dark films (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home being a case in point). However, with black-and-white films, when set to Mid, I'm seeing the slightest pinkish cast sometimes, especially around light sources. When I switch to High, it goes away. Previous iterations of their firmware didn't do that regardless of what level that the tone mapping was set to. I don't have Citizen Kane yet, but I just tried out Anatomy of a Murder, and it had that problem. With It's a Wonderful Life, the effect was strong enough that it bordered on looking like it was sepia toned. On High, it looks fine. Didn't change anything with my calibration when I updated the firmware, but regardless, there shouldn't be a gamma shift between levels like that.
If you're referring to the latest JVC, I've not. I don't feel competent to deal with whatever changes occur, and will leave it to Kevin Miller, who handles my video gear.
 

Robert Crawford

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I appreciate how this review is critical yet constructive and complimentary. It will be interesting to see how this release is received and how people take to the HDR. I'm looking forward to this release.
I think the majority of those with non-projector setups will receive it highly and those that have projectors will be more of a mix bag due to issues with HDR/DV.
 

Blu Eye

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I was waiting on a review of this to decide on the Blu Ray or this 4k version as I never got around to buying the Blu Ray release.

I'm still not sure which version to get after this.

I was anticipating a unfavourable review of this 4k version as I assumed the movie was shot in an era where the film available at the time was perhaps limited in relation to resolution.

Thought Blu Ray would be the best format for the movie to watch.

This 4k is bloody confusing me!!!
 

John Skoda

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I believe a shot in the screening room early should be a bit heavier, and not exposing that new actor, Joe Cotten, before he plays a role in the film. Others, who play characters later in the film are also in this sequence. I've always heard that they were used as opposed to hiring extras, and were not meant to be seen, other than in deep shadow.
This reminds me of one of the DVD issues of HUSH, HUSH SWEET CHARLOTTE. Sorry to even bring this movie up in a CITIZEN KANE thread....

But in the early flashback scenes showing the murder, the sequence ends with youthful Charlotte (Bette Davis) standing in a blood-stained dress in front of party guests, but shadows cover her face. Davis was older by then, and the shadows were meant to disguise the fact they were using a younger actress, even though Davis looped her lines. But one of the DVDs brightened and sharpened that scene so much you could clearly, I mean clearly, see the woman standing there was not Bette Davis.
 

Dave B Ferris

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I love Citizen Kane, with it's brilliant screenplay - someone should do a film about that

Someone did - if Stanley Tucci's "RKO 281" qualifies.
 

JoshZ

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Thanks. As an aside, have you updated to latest Theatre Optimizer firmware yet, and if so, have you noticed a gamma shift with the HDR on some black-and-white movies? I leave mine set to the Middle level for most films, though I occasionally adjust it to the High setting for some particularly dark films (Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home being a case in point). However, with black-and-white films, when set to Mid, I'm seeing the slightest pinkish cast sometimes, especially around light sources. When I switch to High, it goes away. Previous iterations of their firmware didn't do that regardless of what level that the tone mapping was set to. I don't have Citizen Kane yet, but I just tried out Anatomy of a Murder, and it had that problem. With It's a Wonderful Life, the effect was strong enough that it bordered on looking like it was sepia toned. On High, it looks fine. Didn't change anything with my calibration when I updated the firmware, but regardless, there shouldn't be a gamma shift between levels like that.

Do you use the dynamic iris on your JVC? If so, try turning it off. The dynamic iris has a tendency to add a color shift to certain tonalities.
 

ShellOilJunior

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I believe a shot in the screening room early should be a bit heavier, and not exposing that new actor, Joe Cotten, before he plays a role in the film. Others, who play characters later in the film are also in this sequence. I've always heard that they were used as opposed to hiring extras, and were not meant to be seen, other than in deep shadow.
Mr. Harris, do you recall if William Alland's face is more visible on UHD? If memory serves me, his face is shown very briefly but in the shadows.
 

sbjork

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Do you use the dynamic iris on your JVC? If so, try turning it off. The dynamic iris has a tendency to add a color shift to certain tonalities.
It does when it's active, and usually takes a second to settle in. But that's not the issue. Even with the dynamic iris off, there's still coloration with the Mid level setting which doesn't happen on High.

I actually just finally figured that out last weekend. I had been turning off the iris on black-and-white films, but none of them seemed to need the high tone mapping setting. I just switched to High on a whim, and that solved it. Went back and tested other discs that I'd had problems with, too. It's strange. I wasn't expecting that shift with the tone mapping levels, just a difference in brightness.

Anyway, didn't mean to sidetrack the thread, but it's at least tangentially related to HDR issues with B&W films.
 

Michael Osadciw

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I will be supporting this title with my purchase because I want more to come.

Yes, if a TV can operate the same as a reference "Hero Monitor" and play the HDR10 "Hero Master" unaltered (well, as unaltered as a consumer display can do!), then there would be no need for Dolby Vision. The issue is that OLEDs over the last few years seem to max out between 650-800 nits with light, so, it would make perfect sense for the DV active metadata to use the 600nit trim pass (and the rest of the light the TV can do in HDR10 isn't used). How this exactly works, I don't know, and how many decisions are made in post for this trim pass I'm not sure - and how many of these decisions are human or automated...? My measurements of Dolby Vision since the LG C7 have been all over the place in every following generation and they differ from how Sony measures. There's been very little consistency with Dolby Vision, so I need to wonder exactly what or whose "intent" I'm seeing. This is also true of LCD TVs with DV, some of which can't do 1000 nits and others that can. Even though there are a handful of Hero monitors that blast past 1000 nits, I think the amount of content that has specular highlights beyond that is small (and brief when it does). So I tend to target consumer displays to do well up to 1000 nits since the Sony BVM HDR monitors hard clips at 1000nits.

My HDR practice is to match the TV's PQ gamma as tight as possible to the standard (and most "performance" TVs can do that up to about 450nits as long as they're not budget TVs). I think it's safe to say there's a good amount of HDR content that doesn't have much above 500 nits, and if it is, it is brief, and if it has it, the TV will tone map the rest of the HDR10 signal (this will be the case with DV disabled, too). Not everyone may agree with this method, but I find the image much more pleasing and one that I've had more control over in the image calibration process. If the TV can do 1000 nits (Sony X950H, X95J and models above, as well as select Samsumg "9"-series as well as select TCL panels), then that covers the luminance portion of the signal.

I take a similar method for projector calibration. Because projectors have limit light output and screen sizes/material vary, there's a balance required between how much HDR we can have and at times some highlights will be blown out.


That's my understanding of it.

If a TV is capable of reproducing the original look of the film as intended then Dolby Vision is not required whatsoever.

Unfortunately, most TVs cannot do that hence Dolby Vision.

I'm glad I stuck to my guns and never relented when I purchased my first 4k TV last year.

I purchased a Panasonic 4k OLED that does not have DV and has a THX certified movie setting pre-set included.

Despite the fact it was released over 3 years ago I'm continually astounded of the quality when watching discs.
 
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ManW_TheUncool

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I was waiting on a review of this to decide on the Blu Ray or this 4k version as I never got around to buying the Blu Ray release.

I'm still not sure which version to get after this.

I was anticipating a unfavourable review of this 4k version as I assumed the movie was shot in an era where the film available at the time was perhaps limited in relation to resolution.

Thought Blu Ray would be the best format for the movie to watch.

This 4k is bloody confusing me!!!

Since you never bought the previous Warner BD release(s), why not just get the 4K for the extra $5 (presumably after 50% discount at a probable upcoming sale) and have both formats in one package? If I understand correctly, the 4K version has both formats...

_Man_
 

Robert Harris

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This reminds me of one of the DVD issues of HUSH, HUSH SWEET CHARLOTTE. Sorry to even bring this movie up in a CITIZEN KANE thread....

But in the early flashback scenes showing the murder, the sequence ends with youthful Charlotte (Bette Davis) standing in a blood-stained dress in front of party guests, but shadows cover her face. Davis was older by then, and the shadows were meant to disguise the fact they were using a younger actress, even though Davis looped her lines. But one of the DVDs brightened and sharpened that scene so much you could clearly, I mean clearly, see the woman standing there was not Bette Davis.
It's all about doing the tiniest bit of research, and / or actually watching the film. Day for night syndrome.
 

noel aguirre

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Has the original Criterion been pulled then? I’m curious how this blu-ray compares to that one on quality and features.
I also wish Criterion could 4K King Kong another early LD title.
 

compson

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Has the original Criterion been pulled then? I’m curious how this blu-ray compares to that one on quality and features.
I also wish Criterion could 4K King Kong another early LD title.
The previous Blu-ray was from Warner, and Amazon is still selling it. Amazon also has a separate pre-order listing for the new Criterion 1080p Blu-ray.
 

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