A Few Words About A few words about...™ Batman/Returns/Forever/Robin -- in 4k UHD Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[English Invader]

Just checking does BATMAN 89 retain its original theatrical WB Opening logo?

Sadly on the logo topic recent 4K screenings of Kubricks THE SHINING does not restore the Saul Bass logo. :-( Really wish the 4K disc would restore it.

Fingers crossed when The Exorcist hits 4K it will finally get the Saul Bass Logo restored. It was perfect with the score integrated with that logo.

I remember that logo you speak of but didn't know what it was called until now (thanks for that!). I always thought it looked cool and I felt a bit gutted when I started buying copies of The Shining with the Warner Bros Family Entertainment logo slapped on the front.

Barry Lyndon held out for quite a while. The DVD remaster from the early naughties has the Saul Bass logo and preserves the 1:59:1 aspect ratio. The HD upgrade has a more contemporary WB logo and the aspect ratio has been changed to 1:85:1.

 

[mBen989]

I remember that logo you speak of but didn't know what it was called until now (thanks for that!). I always thought it looked cool and I felt a bit gutted when I started buying copies of The Shining with the Warner Bros Family Entertainment logo slapped on the front.

Barry Lyndon held out for quite a while. The DVD remaster from the early naughties has the Saul Bass logo and preserves the 1:59:1 aspect ratio. The HD upgrade has a more contemporary WB logo and the aspect ratio has been changed to 1:85:1.

If it helps, Criterion picked this up. Not sure about the Saul Bass logo but it's 5x3. (Is that the correct term for 1.66?)

 

[Worth]

The Criterion Barry Lyndon has the original red Warner logo.

 

[Powell&Pressburger]

The Saul Bass WB Opening Logo on THE EXORCIST is the one that truly guts me that is was replaced, on most recent editions with the WB Shield from CONTACT

The music over the original logo intro was perfect! Hoping when the 4K for The Exorcist finally is released we get the true theatrical version and color timing NO cgi! And the Saul Bass Logo.

 

[Brian Kidd]

The Saul Bass WB Opening Logo on THE EXORCIST is the one that truly guts me that is was replaced, on most recent editions with the WB Shield from CONTACT

The music over the original logo intro was perfect! Hoping when the 4K for The Exorcist finally is released we get the true theatrical version and color timing NO cgi! And the Saul Bass Logo.

Hope is admirable, but I wouldn't hold your breath. Every time a studio gets bought out, it's much easier to just slap on a modern logo than it is to go back and alter a older design to include whatever corporate behemoth a studio is currently a part of. I'm just glad that 2001 still has the awesome, short-lived blue MGM logo. I totally agree that the red WB logo is a much-more-appropriate logo for The Exorcist, stylistically.

 

[English Invader]

If it helps, Criterion picked this up. Not sure about the Saul Bass logo but it's 5x3. (Is that the correct term for 1.66?)

That is good news. I love the Criterion/Arrow/Masters of Cinema sets and Barry Lyndon is my favourite Kubrick. It's worth it to me just for the bonus features alone as there are none at all on the WB releases (apart from the theatrical trailer). The only snag is that it's a region A and I'm in the UK but if there is a release I want enough to invest in an multi-region player this is it.

Can anyone tell me if the Criterion discs are region locked or not?

 

[Worth]

Can anyone tell me if the Criterion discs are region locked or not?

They are.

 

[AcesHighStudios]

Well, I would like to offer my most humble apologies to Mr. Harris in questioning his review. My 4K Blu-rays of the Burton Batman movies arrived today, and I watched the first 20 minutes or so of the first movie. While it does look excellent -- certainly better than it ever has -- it does not have the 4K pop, just as Mr. Harris said it didn't. I am sorry, sir.

 

[Osato]

They are in stores!!!

 

[Brian Kidd]

I watched about 2/3 of BATMAN last night. The opening scene with the muggers had me a little nervous because it appeared like the Great Teal Demon was rearing its ugly head, but that must have just been the way it was shot. The rest of it that I watched looked fabulous. As RAH said, it looks as good as I imagine it can and is certainly the best it has ever looked on home video. The HDR wasn't overdone. It just gave it a very nice image with lots of shadow delineation and rich, though never oversaturated, color. The Atmos mix is top-notch. As someone who saw the film opening day, bought the VHS the day it was released (which was one of the first times that a Hollywood blockbuster got a home video release within months of its theatrical release), and have owned a copy on laserdisc, DVD, and Blu-ray, I have seen the film many, many times in the past 30 years. I would never have realized that many of the foley effects were new. The Elfman soundtrack sounded wonderful and the aural soundstage was wide, robust and enveloping. I know that many folks over on another forum are practically having a coronary that the original sound mix wasn't included (going so far as to try and create their own versions with the Laserdisc or DVD audio in place of the new mix), but unlike other films where foley effects were newly-created (Superman: The Movie), I was never aware of a difference while I was watching it. I'm sure that if I took time to compare scenes back to back with the different sound mixes that I could tell the difference, but I think the whole Internet Outrage over the new mix is a tempest in a teapot.

It's a wonderful release that really presents the film in the finest way it has ever been released on home video. I look forward to finishing it tonight and moving on to Batman Returns.

 

[AcesHighStudios]

In regard to the Atmos mix, during the scene where dollar bills are raining down on the crowd during the parade, I actually thought it was raining outside with drops of raining hitting my skylight overhead. We have had nearly 800 storms, tornadoes, etc., in Oklahoma in the month of May alone, so I thought it was happening again.

 

[Robert Harris]

In regard to the Atmos mix, during the scene where dollar bills are raining down on the crowd during the parade, I actually thought it was raining outside with drops of raining hitting my skylight overhead. We have had nearly 800 storms, tornadoes, etc., in Oklahoma in the month of May alone, so I thought it was happening again.

Atmos adds a certain visceral aspect. I’m a huge Dolby fan. Have worked with them going back to ‘88, and they’ve never let me down. Nor has Lucas.

 

[AcesHighStudios]

Atmos adds a certain visceral aspect. I’m a huge Dolby fan. Have worked with them going back to ‘88, and they’ve never let me down. Nor has Lucas.

Do you feel Atmos is more of a gimmick?

 

[Brian Kidd]

Do you feel Atmos is more of a gimmick?

I know you were directing your question to RAH and I'm interested to hear his opinion as well.

For me, Atmos is just an evolution of theatrical multichannel sound that has been in development since Fantasound. Since our ears are able to determine the source of natural sounds in three-dimensional space, Atmos' object-based system better allows sound designers and mixers to place sounds that would be heard above us, like a plane or other object flying over our heads, or sounds that would naturally be heard coming from all directions, like rain, etc., in speaker positions that better emulate our natural hearing. Of course, its potential is only really tapped in a well-equipped theater environment, where it's possible to have a large number of speakers, each with its own assigned channel, however even the minimum of 2 ceiling speakers in the home version of Atmos is effective at broadening the soundstage. If you have the big bucks to spend, the 4 ceiling and 2 additional front wide speakers add even more "depth" to the soundfield. (The upfiring "Atmos-enabled" speakers kind of work, if you happen to be in just the right spot for the reflected sound to hit your ears correctly, but they are certainly not equal to having ceiling speakers.)

Is it a gimmick? It can be "gimmicky," certainly. However, I view the Atmos system as a tool. Whether or not an Atmos mix truly enhances the film being watched depends entirely upon its appropriateness for the material and the skill and effort of the folks who create the Atmos mix. I've heard some Atmos mixes that did very little, if anything, to the overall effect of the film and I've heard some that absolutely add an additional layer of immersiveness to the experience. I think that as Atmos becomes more of a standard in sound mixing, which it seems to have done in the past couple of years, sound mixers and designers will become more comfortable with the tools and capabilities of Atmos and will find ways of doing things with cinematic sound that could not have been imagined 20 years ago. I feel like it's the most exciting development in sound technology since Dolby Stereo in the 1970's.

 

[Robert Harris]

I know you were directing your question to RAH and I'm interested to hear his opinion as well.

For me, Atmos is just an evolution of theatrical multichannel sound that has been in development since Fantasound. Since our ears are able to determine the source of natural sounds in three-dimensional space, Atmos' object-based system better allows sound designers and mixers to place sounds that would be heard above us, like a plane or other object flying over our heads, or sounds that would naturally be heard coming from all directions, like rain, etc., in speaker positions that better emulate our natural hearing. Of course, its potential is only really tapped in a well-equipped theater environment, where it's possible to have a large number of speakers, each with its own assigned channel, however even the minimum of 2 ceiling speakers in the home version of Atmos is effective at broadening the soundstage. If you have the big bucks to spend, the 4 ceiling and 2 additional front wide speakers add even more "depth" to the soundfield. (The upfiring "Atmos-enabled" speakers kind of work, if you happen to be in just the right spot for the reflected sound to hit your ears correctly, but they are certainly not equal to having ceiling speakers.)

Is it a gimmick? It can be "gimmicky," certainly. However, I view the Atmos system as a tool. Whether or not an Atmos mix truly enhances the film being watched depends entirely upon its appropriateness for the material and the skill and effort of the folks who create the Atmos mix. I've heard some Atmos mixes that did very little, if anything, to the overall effect of the film and I've heard some that absolutely add an additional layer of immersiveness to the experience. I think that as Atmos becomes more of a standard in sound mixing, which it seems to have done in the past couple of years, sound mixers and designers will become more comfortable with the tools and capabilities of Atmos and will find ways of doing things with cinematic sound that could not have been imagined 20 years ago. I feel like it's the most exciting development in sound technology since Dolby Stereo in the 1970's.

Agreed.

 

[AcesHighStudios]

I agree as well. I love Dolby Atmos when it's done well.

 

[EnricoE]

Kinda sucks that Warner has not included the original mixes. We just get a new Atmos mix, with new SFX in certain scenes. Remixes are fine, but FFS include the original mixes!!!

 

[Brian Kidd]

Kinda sucks that Warner has not included the original mixes. We just get a new Atmos mix, with new SFX in certain scenes. Remixes are fine, but FFS include the original mixes!!!

It does suck, since there is ample space for it, however I'd say that 99% of viewers won't notice that some foley effects are different. The new mix is very well done. This is an instance where the effects that have been replaced were stock effects, used in other films, with which the director wasn't happy. None of the changes are detrimental to the film in any way.

 

[AcesHighStudios]

I watched "Batman Returns" last night and I must say, it IS a revelation. STUNNING!

 

[Osato]

I watched "Batman Returns" last night and I must say, it IS a revelation. STUNNING!

Great news!