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Dave H

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Indeed and I also checked a bunch of other SDR titles on caps-a-holic that are all 10 Bit. Not sure why I thought they were only 8 Bit. Not a big believer in 10 Bit making that much of a difference but it is the right thing to do and makes the display chain less dependent on good dithering.

Now if these also had the 2020 color space that could make more of a visible difference in some reds and greens but It would probably need at least some kind of amendment to the standard to be able to do that.

It's probably easy to think of SDR and 8 bit given how it was for so many years. I agree, 10 bit probably doesn't make a big difference but probably helps in certain situations. My JVC NP5/RS1100 front projector is actually 12 bit, end to end.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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It's probably easy to think of SDR and 8 bit given how it was for so many years. I agree, 10 bit probably doesn't make a big difference but probably helps in certain situations. My JVC NP5/RS1100 front projector is actually 12 bit, end to end.

10-bit seems a waste for SDR if limited to BT.709 anyway. There should be no benefit at all near as I can tell.


Your PJ making use of upto 12-bit is a diff story since it should ideally support the highest bit depth (and be able to process it for output... and the processing itself could likely always use additional bit depth beyond what's actually received and output).

_Man_
 

JoshZ

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Given the Techniscope source and SDR encoding, is there really any point to buying these movies on UHD as opposed to standard Blu-ray? I understand that older Blu-ray releases of these movies were problematic for various reasons, but are there comparable Blu-ray editions from the same masters as the UHDs?

It just seems like a waste to buy these movies on UHD when they barely have 2K worth of detail and no HDR.
 

Robert Crawford

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Given the Techniscope source and SDR encoding, is there really any point to buying these movies on UHD as opposed to standard Blu-ray? I understand that older Blu-ray releases of these movies were problematic for various reasons, but are there comparable Blu-ray editions from the same masters as the UHDs?

It just seems like a waste to buy these movies on UHD when they barely have 2K worth of detail and no HDR.
If you're getting them at a good pricepoint, why not? Right now, both 4K releases are available from Amazon for $19.99 each. Using some of my bonus points, I'll be getting both of them for $14.99 each.
 

Robert Harris

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If you have the full 4K in the horizontal domain then 2-perf is no issue as you have the same resolution per mm in the vertical and horizontal domain, same with Super 35. It only would be an issue if there would be less resolution from left to right like for example 3k or 2.5k.

In that case a traditional scope movie would for example achieve roughly 2.5k by 2.1k resolution on the negative so that would help with a UHD Blu-ray that needs about 3840 x 1634 pixels for a traditional scope movie - horizontal resolution would be a bit too low for 4k but vertical resolution would even be more than needed.
Thank you for saving me the trouble of posting.

1654626730298.jpeg


Courtesy of Widescreen Museum.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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Given the Techniscope source and SDR encoding, is there really any point to buying these movies on UHD as opposed to standard Blu-ray? I understand that older Blu-ray releases of these movies were problematic for various reasons, but are there comparable Blu-ray editions from the same masters as the UHDs?

It just seems like a waste to buy these movies on UHD when they barely have 2K worth of detail and no HDR.

As I noted earlier, it seems like FAFDM comes from the same prior KL BD master, except they apparently recovered/restored/added ~30secs of previously missing footage as noted by another poster as follows...

Please note that the new FAFDM is the most complete version of the film ever released on home video in North America. If you have any older US release you have a slightly shortened film. The extra content doesn't amount to much--about 30 seconds--but it includes the end of the beating scene where Groggy asks, "Why let 'em live?" and Indio replies, "All things at the right time." Without this exchange there is an awkward cut from the beating scene to the walk-and-talk scene between Indio and his gang (where he explains his plan to fool the El Paso sheriff). The extra dialog isn't essential to the story, but it makes for a smoother transition, and it was what Leone originally intended.

AFoD, OTOH, does look like a different/better (re)grading/(re)tweaking/master (that now seems to match KL's FAFDM grading/look much more closely) though...

IF you already have KL's BD of FAFDM, maybe just get the AFoD 4K first and see for yourself and then decide whether to add the FAFDM 4K later I guess...

Neither one seems look that much like the TGTBATU 4K though (and that makes me wonder why KL didn't try to go for the same look for these 4K releases, except perhaps for some complaints about crushed blacks/shadows I guess)...

_Man_

PS: Again, I'm only basing these thoughts on the caps-a-holic screencaps as I only have the TGTBATU 4K from KL.
 

Robert Harris

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As I noted earlier, it seems like FAFDM comes from the same prior KL BD master, except they apparently recovered/restored/added ~30secs of previously missing footage as noted by another poster as follows...



AFoD, OTOH, does look like a different/better (re)grading/(re)tweaking/master (that now seems to match KL's FAFDM grading/look much more closely) though...

IF you already have KL's BD of FAFDM, maybe just get the AFoD 4K first and see for yourself and then decide whether to add the FAFDM 4K later I guess...

Neither one seems look that much like the TGTBATU 4K though (and that makes me wonder why KL didn't try to go for the same look for these 4K releases, except perhaps for some complaints about crushed blacks/shadows I guess)...

_Man_

PS: Again, I'm only basing these thoughts on the caps-a-holic screencaps as I only have the TGTBATU 4K from KL.
Suggest you wait and view the disc as opposed to caps,
 

OliverK

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It's probably easy to think of SDR and 8 bit given how it was for so many years. I agree, 10 bit probably doesn't make a big difference but probably helps in certain situations. My JVC NP5/RS1100 front projector is actually 12 bit, end to end.
If you activate low latency mode it will even do full bandwidth 12 bit on luma AND chroma. Previous generations did not do that but the current one does.
 

Dave H

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10-bit seems a waste for SDR if limited to BT.709 anyway. There should be no benefit at all near as I can tell.


Your PJ making use of upto 12-bit is a diff story since it should ideally support the highest bit depth (and be able to process it for output... and the processing itself could likely always use additional bit depth beyond what's actually received and output).

_Man_
I seem to recall hearing 10 bit can help protect against certain issues like banding and yet still provide a bit more color fidelity. I'm admittingly no expert in this area, however. Some wished standard BD was 10 bit.
 

Dave H

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If you activate low latency mode it will even do full bandwidth 12 bit on luma AND chroma. Previous generations did not do that but the current one does.

Interesting. Does Low latency cause any other issues? I think mine is set to off. Thanks!
 

Dave H

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So, I watched all three UHD BDs this past week...finished with The Good The Bad and The Ugly last night. I immensely enjoyed the experience. It had been years since I saw them. I do have the 2014 MGM BD of 'The Good' with the terrible yellow and the Kino UHD BD was such a delight.
 

JohnnyLancer

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While watching a fistful of dollars today I wonder why it appears that some exterior shots look dark in certain frames and then close ups looks clear?. Also whenever I see a interior shot with Eastwood and a co star they look very clear. The first 5 minutes of the movie looked quite dark to my eyes.
 

Chewbabka

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While watching a fistful of dollars today I wonder why it appears that some exterior shots look dark in certain frames and then close ups looks clear?. Also whenever I see a interior shot with Eastwood and a co star they look very clear. The first 5 minutes of the movie looked quite dark to my eyes.

Are you speaking of the day-for-night shots? That’s just how they look.
 

JohnnyLancer

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Are you speaking of the day-for-night shots? That’s just how they look.
The opening sequence where Eastwood stops to get water from the well. From there on to the mule scene looks kinda dark. His poncho even looks nearly black compared to green. It looked almost as if the darker colors in the film were darker and fhe lighter objects ( such as the villagers homes which are white) really pop
 

OliverK

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Interesting. Does Low latency cause any other issues? I think mine is set to off. Thanks!
That would depend on your usage. You will not be able to use any motion smoothing any more. I do not really use it myself so for me it never was a downside.
 

RickardL

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Has anyone brought up the issues with the audio track on A Fistful of Dollars?
 
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Spencer Draper

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Has anyone brought up the issues with the audio track on A Fistful of Dollars?
I have in other places. The balance between levels is completely shot. The music seemingly from a master source has far greater fidelity but overwhelms everything and the edit of the cues isn’t quite right. Also some bits of effects and dialogue are either drowned out, obscured or missing.

The Kino Fistful is a big mixed bag with improvements and non-improvements but the flawed audio is a gigantic problem.

FAFDM fares much better but still has some issues. The edit is nearly complete but misses a second or two from the German disc which is complete.
 

noel aguirre

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Given the Techniscope source and SDR encoding, is there really any point to buying these movies on UHD as opposed to standard Blu-ray? I understand that older Blu-ray releases of these movies were problematic for various reasons, but are there comparable Blu-ray editions from the same masters as the UHDs?

It just seems like a waste to buy these movies on UHD when they barely have 2K worth of detail and no HDR.

If you're getting them at a good pricepoint, why not? Right now, both 4K releases are available from Amazon for $19.99 each. Using some of my bonus points, I'll be getting both of them for $14.99 each.
Ordered yesterday from Amz thanks RC.
And as I prefer mostly mild to no HDR for classic films and given a gain in resolution as others have mentioned more than 2K it’s a no- brainer to buy.
But why would the pre-opening titles be changed if it’s the exact same scan as others are saying?
 

Bartman

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I have the accompanying Blu-ray from the GB&U 4K UHD set and it's the best it has ever looked. Online reviews also mention that laserdisc audio was used for this release, after years of complaints online, and it's the best it has ever sounded too. I have less interest in the Dollars movies but it's good to know Kino has done them justice.
I may have had less interest in these Dollars Blu-rays but when I saw how bad my DVDs looked, I thought it time to upgrade. I don't have a 4K player so I purchased overstock Blu-rays from the KL 4K sets from a seller on Ebay, a seller I've used before.
A Fistful Of Dollars arrived first. Surprisingly despite the very high bit rate video, while being a big improvement over DVD and supposedly from a new transfer, the look was consistent but far from perfect. There is softness and aliasing noise etc. Perhaps the down conversion from 4K to 2K was not done with the enough care?
For A Few Dollars More was better, even though the bit rate was lower and an older transfer. Better clarity, less digital noise, definitely a big upgrade from DVD. As noted in 4K reviews, the opening sequence and latter half is problematic (takes on the look of A Fistful Of Dollars) and is probably from alternate elements. The down conversion was probably done with better care!
Some of these comments may reflect the condition of the elements used, I have no way of knowing. For those of you with 4K players, have you done a comparison? If so, do my comments make sense?
 

Bartman

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I may have had less interest in these Dollars Blu-rays but when I saw how bad my DVDs looked, I thought it time to upgrade. I don't have a 4K player so I purchased overstock Blu-rays from the KL 4K sets from a seller on Ebay, a seller I've used before.
A Fistful Of Dollars arrived first. Surprisingly despite the very high bit rate video, while being a big improvement over DVD and supposedly from a new transfer, the look was consistent but far from perfect. There is softness and aliasing noise etc. Perhaps the down conversion from 4K to 2K was not done with the enough care?
For A Few Dollars More was better, even though the bit rate was lower and an older transfer. Better clarity, less digital noise, definitely a big upgrade from DVD. As noted in 4K reviews, the opening sequence and latter half is problematic (takes on the look of A Fistful Of Dollars) and is probably from alternate elements. The down conversion was probably done with better care!
Some of these comments may reflect the condition of the elements used, I have no way of knowing. For those of you with 4K players, have you done a comparison? If so, do my comments make sense?
In case I confused everyone (and frightened them off) I meant a comparison between 4K and 2K picture quality, thanks!
 

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