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A Few Words About A few words about... Passion of the Christ (1 Viewer)

Robert Harris

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To EnricoE...



greg_t gave you the short version of LoA information.



The disc which you seem to like is not David Lean's Lawrence of Arabia. It is a version edited by Chace Audio to fit their desires.



The high definition version currently available contains the electronic enhancement which can still be seen in the Superbit version. Although quite beautiful, the current HiDef master may have to be remade in order to rid it of EE added by the technicians during that transfer.



Unfortunately, I neither own nor control Sony, nor was I involved with the old HiDef mastering, which I did not approve.



If it was remastered today by Columbia's Grover Crisp, no doubt it would be perfect, and we would all be happy.



If you do happen to like Lawrence, please do not view your non-Superbit edition.



It is best used as a coaster.



RAH
 

Robert Harris

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To Shane Martin,



I use several monitors to view image quality.



I'll occasionally begin with a Mac flat panel, either 17 or 23" to check for sizing and ratios.



I also occasionally use a Sony 20" XBR, which cuts off the image left and right, but gives a reasonable representation color-wise. This monitor is c. 1990. Not exactly current state of the art.



If I'm looking at something seriously, I'll go to either a 40" Sony LCD rear projection unit; a Runco which projects to a Stewart 1.3 gain 110" 16:9 screen for checking digititus or detail...



or my favorite device, Sony's new 34XBR960, which I believe I've mentioned as what I perceive to be the finest monitor produced for the consumer sector.



PotC looks fine on the Sony 34, but shows its problems via the Runco, which may be why many people are not seeing these problems -- which I must repeat on not on the level of Cold Mountain. Nor are they continuous.



There are certain scenes which seem to simply get lost in the digital arena.



I re-checked the larger system last evening by sampling four titles, two of which I viewed in their entirely on the 34.



Warner's Taking Lives is a quality transfer -- and a superb thriller, superbly edited by a classicaly trained editor. Here her work might remind one of that seen in In the Line of Fire.



Another fine release is Paramount's Mean Girls; colorful, with good detail, and generally free of artifacts. A high end product, and a fun film.



Then there were two films which had me wondering if the filmmaker might have had Joe Pesci make a call to the technical folks at Warner.



I can imagine the opening salvo:



"What? Do you think electronic enhancement is funny or something? Those halos I see on other films... I see 'em on these... you'll be biting a curb!"



Whether through intimidation or possibly respect for the filmmaker, the two Martin Scorsese titles which I previewed were as perfect as I've seen.



Both Goodfellas and After Hours were totally film-like.



No problems.



A total pleasure.



Kudos to those at Warner Bros. who produced them. Whether through fear or desire, they nailed them. No pun intended here.



Which makes me believe that what I'm seeing on PotC is accurate as reported.



RAH
 

Mark Zimmer

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quote:If it was remastered today by Columbia's Grover Crisp, no doubt it would be perfect, and we would all be happy.




Somehow I doubt that very much. Everything I've seen released by Columbia up to this very day suffers from excessive edge enhancement, which makes me guess that something in Sony's compression equipment is boogered up, to use the technical term.



In slight defense of the old LOA disc, the extras (especially the interactive map) are definitely worthwhile. But yes, the video is appalling in light of the Superbit version.
 

Robert Harris

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With the lag time involved between actual film work, mastering and release, it is only now that Mr. Crisp's work is beginning to make its way to the consumer base. He and his people are quite aware of what a good looking DVD should be.



RAH
 

EnricoE

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quote:The disc which you seem to like is not David Lean's Lawrence of Arabia. It is a version edited by Chace Audio to fit their desires.




i don't say i'm totally satisfied but the intermission change really bugs me so much and i think i'm not the only one
wink.gif
besides i would overlooked the ee if the intermission would have been done the way it should be but my hopes a re up for a perfect re-release of this fantastic film
smile.gif




maybe you should make this "joe pecsi" (fantastic actor btw) call to columbia so no more ee on any future releases of kind of film they release
wink.gif
 

Kevin Lamb

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quote:Your point would be valid if it wasn't for POTC having reference video quality


Oh man...I can't believe I'm admitting this but after following two full threads on The Passion I finally realized why everyone kept comparing this release to the DVD of Pirates of the Carribean.
 

Joe Karlosi

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There is something I've always wondered about Edge Enhancement. Why do they even bother, and why do they call it enhancement when all it seems to do is bug viewers so much? It sounds to me that EE is a detractor, not an enhancer.
 

Ernest Rister

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The thing is, edge enhancement bugs people on this forum and people who look for it and see it as a flaw. If I may submit a confession -- way way back in my "yute", when I first rented a laserdisc player so I could watch the Criterion laserdiscs of Close Encounters and Sex, Lies and Videotape that I had purchased, when I saw "shimmers", I thought such a thing was actually *cool*. I saw it as a result of higher resolution. When I was watching the laserdisc of Silverado, and a fireside scene sported vibrant colors but also vibrant "shimmers", I was all about it. Now flash forward about 12 years. Today, I know the absolute goal of a home theater presentation is to replicate a theatrical presentation. Today, I see DVD presentations with a highly-processed, hard-edged "digital" look, and I recoil. The question is -- how many people out there actually see edge ehancement and recoil? How many people out there tonight who are watching The Passion are seeing compression artifacts and ringing and shimmering and are sharply disappointed?

I have no doubt in my mind that every single flaw pointed out by Robert Harris does, in fact, exist. I suspect it might be a waste of his time to double-check his opinion by watching the film on other equipment. Why? His eyes are trained to notice such flaws. His area of expertise and the high demand for his services depend upon such a high level of observation. That is why the name Robert Harris is synonymous with rigorous attention to detail in film presentation.

Thing is, though, as right as he is, how many people see through his eyes and see what he sees? Not many, I'd wager. That's why he is Robert Harris, and that is why his opinions are so valued. But as I said a few posts back, for the majority of people who have bought this title (or will receive it for free from their Church), even if they do notice mosquito noise or compression artifacts, will these masses find such things duly objectionable? Or will they be like me when I was 22, and take such things in stride - or worse - think it is even a sign of *quality* because they don't know any better? Even suggesting the masses "don't know any better" has an uncomfortable ring of snobbish condescension, so I'm loathe to even toss that notion into the ring.

For my part, I think the video quality of the single-disc USA R1 release of The Passion is more than servicable, in fact I think it is very good, except for instances of hard-edged ringing every so often. Thing is, do people outside of hardcore a/v enthusiasts even notice, and if they do, do they find it objectionable?
 

PaulEB

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quote:for the majority of people who have bought this title (or will receive it for free from their Church),




Is this part relevant to the thread? If so we need to add people who received it as a gift, or won it in a contest, or stole it from Best Buy, or copied it illegally, etc


EE is in the eye of the movie watcher, some people notice it and some do not, plain and simple. There are some who aren't happy if they don't notice it and then are determined to hunt it down by asking others where the EE shows up.

I just setup my home theater with a 106" diagonal screen vs. the 32" Sony I've been using. It will be interesting to see if EE starts showing up more in my movie viewing. I hope to get to watch POTC this weekend.
 

greg_t

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We know what Robert Harris' thoughts are on Passion of the Christ, but what I want to know is what does Robert Harns think about it
smile.gif
(those who followed the Lawerence superbit will get it)
 

Robert Harris

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In regard to Ernest Rister's comments, I fully agree that PotC is more than serviceable. I also agree with his comments about church give-aways, which may have been taken as something other than as meant.



The entire give-away situation, which is a wonderful concept, may be bringing people who have been waiting on the fringes for a reason to purchase their first DVD player.



In that light, they may be many converts arriving from the VHS arena, and PotC may be the the first DVD they place in their new player.



I've mentioned a number of times, that I'm sometimes jealous of those who have the opportunity to view a great classic film for the first time. Many of the aforementioned VHS PotC converts will be seeing a DVD for the first time on their own equipment.



This should be a great experience for them.



Are they going to notice digital defects?



Certainly not!



They're going to be amazed by the quality of DVD, and most likely immediately pre-order the Star Wars set.



As such, my comments are not meant for the average viewer. If the web and sites such as Digital Bits and HTF are to be successful, it will be in educating the higher end viewers to understand why certain offerings looks as they do.



And where releases are problematic, to entice the industry to try to do better.



Because we know that they can.



VHS was an extremely "forgiving" format. Low in resolution, and with signature noise patterns, one was able to master from not only a less than prime film element, one could go to 16mm and come up with a decent release.



Laserdisc raised the bar of acceptability in regard to pre-print or print elements selected for transfer. It was, however, still an analogue signal, which would hide a multitude of sins within noise.



When that bar was again raised by DVD, average pre-print elements were no longer acceptable, and owners of copyrights were forced to create new duplicating elements to service the needs of the new format.



Along with element upgrades also came a need to properly process the downconverted digital files (recorded as high definition) toward the creation of a quality DVD. This is the area in which we are still seeing a need for more control.



That said, it is still only the top 10% or so of the audience that cares, or will even notice problems.



That fact alone, which is known to the industry, could easily have the studios taking a "we don't care" attitude.



That hasn't occurred.



We are receiving superior results from Warner Bros, Paramount, Universal, Fox

and Sony. We know that Disney is highly capable of doing the same.



Are errors made?



Does the occasionial bad release hit the market?



Certainly.



But the reaction is generally to do something about it and to correct it.



Fox's DVD release of Passion of the Christ is not the norm for them. It is an anomoly, which will most likely be bettered in a special edition.



Fox generally does superb releases.



Will the quality of Miramax releases change from what we've seen on Cold Mountain?



These aren't stupid people.



Given the lag time necessary from initial transfer to hitting store shelves, I would expect that we'll see better results within six months or so.



Once a system is in place via which some responsible person with an eye toward quality is checking compressed masters before they go into DVD production, we may have nothing to discuss but the weather.



RAH
 

Felix Martinez

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quote:Will the quality of Miramax releases change from what we've seen on Cold Mountain?



These aren't stupid people.



Given the lag time necessary from initial transfer to hitting store shelves, I would expect that we'll see better results within six months or so.




Robert, I'm curious as to how receptive the home video units are to critical feedback. For example, after comments from you and others on the Gangs of NY DVD, I would have thought the appalling visual quality of the Cold Mountain DVD would have been avoided. If memory serves, the VOB date for the Cold Mountain mpeg files were Dec. 2003 (someone correct me if I'm wrong). If that is true, Miramax would have had about 6 months to re-assess their efforts before encoding Cold Mountain.



re: LOA, the Superbit is indeed a remarkable improvement. I only kept the LE for the bonus material, maps, etc. I know this has probably been answered before, but I still see what appears to be a "dead pixel" slightly right of center during much of LOA - it's not from my projector (I checked). Is this the camera or negative damage suffered from the extreme heat of the shoot. Sorry fot the OT - just curious!



Now, if you'll please excuse me...Hurricane Frances is blowin just outside my shuttered windows...my UPS just kicked in...gotta run!
 

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