A few words about....Blu-Ray (1 Viewer)

[FrancisP]

I'm starting to wonder if high definition is worth it. We may have to put up with Hollywood monitoring what we do and watch. If they don't like it then they can take a dvd player that we buy and disable it. If we want to use a recorder for on-air recording, will Hollywood be able to stop it? Hollywood has basically bought off the judicial, legislative, and executive branches of government so I
guess we're at their mercy. The days of the robber barons are back again. If that is the price for hi-def then I will pass.

I also don't believe that either format is a lock to win.
Neither RCA's video discs or laserdiscs ever reached mass acceptance. I don't believe that PS3 gives Blu-ray a huge
advantage. Even with a PS3, people will hold off buying
movies until one format wins. Then there is the next problem. Will a mass audience notice enough of a difference
to replace their Star wars disc with a hi-def disc?

 

[Aaron_Brez]

This is pretty unfair to the judicial branch, actually. For them to knock down a law, there have to be legitimate reasons to suspect its unconstitutionality. Right or wrong, they've decided that the current legal landscape is within the realm of constituional law. They may be grossly mistaken in their decisions, but being appointed civil servants, I don't think you can categorize them as "bought off" unless you have actual proof bribes of Supreme Court justices have taken place.

On the other hand, the legislature and the executive are elected and very dependent on campaign contributions, which Hollywood has been happy to provide. I'll agree with you in considering that "bought off".

 

[Jesse Blacklow]

I don't know how I missed this, but according to Paul Sweeting over at Video Business, "HD DVD launch off for Q4, As Toshiba delays hardware production". At this point, it sounds like just another nail in the coffin.

 

[Dave Moritz]

This entire format war sucks as I am sure most of us can agree on . While Samsung has anounce a BD/HD-DVD player and Denon says they will not offer a player until there is a clear cut winner. I just found out that even Meridian will not choose sides and plans to wait and see what happens just like Denon. So I wonder how many companies are going to hold off on a hd player? Pioneer, Samsung, Panasonic all seem to be making players and recorders for on side or another. The fact that some of the top companies are holding out makes me alittle concerned. I to will hold of alittle longer than I was planing to in order to see what unfolds. I will most likely go through with purchasing a Mitsubishi 50" DLP HDTV 1080p set but will hold off on buying into a HD movie format until I feel I am not putting money into a failing format.

 

[willyTass]

Australia has 20 million people. How many of them have a HDTV with a version 1.1 HDMI socket?
Answer: less than 5000 (!)
Can you conceive Warner Bros, Universal etc remastering movies for such a pitifully small market? Both Toshiba and Sony have said that the HD signal will never be transmitted over component (even though the bastards know it can). It's a similar situation in the USA: only a small number of americans have a HDTV with the latest version of HDMI (proportional to the 400 million that watch dvd over component/ s-video).

THERE WAS NEVER ANYTHING WRONG WITH MPEG 2! A properly authored transfer looks spectacular even at 8 bit/27 mhz encoding. The HD-DVD/ Bluray venture was a way to sucker us in to buying new televisions and new dvd players.

Did anyone enjoy Star Wars more because they had the privelege of watching Mr Lucas's THX remaster?(compared to when they first saw it) Are we really gonna enjoy Lord of the Rings/ Casablanca MORE because its a slightly higher resolution?.

Shouldn't we be more focused on producing quality movies and great stories rather than the benefits of high defintion transfers.

 

[Juan C]

But the Australians eat Vegemite, so anything is possible.

 

[Marc Colella]

Can't we have both?

 

[DaViD Boulet]

Not to mention the world is full of many great films that have ALREADY been produced...and deserve a home-media format capable of delivering them to the film enthusiast with picture and sound transparent to the master.

Whether or not the film industry succeeds in producing "good" movies these days doesn't really matter to me. There's more than enough out there that *is* good than I could ever afford. I'm sure that WB alone has enough classic catalog titles to keep me going for years to come...

Besides,

there have always been good movies and there have always been bad. Part of the reason folks tend to think that movies used be better "in the good old days" was because our memory fades of all the BAD movies that never stuck around and got put on AMC. There are plenty of them...PLENTY of bad "old" movies...just like there are plenty of good *new* movies for those who care to find them.

Oh yeah...and we should be able to buy in them all in 1080P with lossless 24/96 audio...both the good and the bad (one man's good is another man's bad so let's not decide which titles are deserving and which ones aren't).

 

[Aaron_Brez]

You don't need HDCP 1.1. DVI with HDCP 1.0 is sufficient.

All HDCP 1.1 transmitters, by spec, must support HDCP 1.0 receivers.

So the numbers are a little higher, and people would need to buy an HDMI to DVI converter cable. Doesn't change your point, just being specific.

And I concur with David Boulet: movies will suck or not suck, regardless of what happens in the home video market. Asking for (or even demanding) the highest quality image for our money is just part of being picky consumers.

 

[RobertR]

If only the studios saw it that way...but they don’t. In a rational world, a business would be happy to sell lots and lots of discs to a movie buying public eager to buy as many titles as they can pump out. Sell more discs, make more money….LOTS of it. But no, they don’t see it that way. All they can see is the money they didn’t make from people who don’t buy, and may copy instead. Never mind that their actions hurt and inconvenience their customers. It isn’t enough for them to make lots more money selling to people willing to pay for their product. They want everything they COULD have (theoretically) made. They couldn’t care less about what we think we “deserve”.

It’s been asked if the phone/internet connection necessity will really happen. Ask yourself if the studios WANT it to happen. Ask yourself if their preference ISN’T a pay per view model. And ask yourself how high a priority it is to them not to inconvenience honest customers.

 

[Paul.S]

You're arguably presenting a choice between chalk and cheese: it could be argued that the former--making "quality" movies--is filmmakers' job/responsibility/passion and is a function of the production community. The latter is more a function of the consumer and technical communities.

And what of filmmakers who've made kick ass movies -and- who I'd surmise (based upon the quality and their supervision of their standard def output) are very interested in the possibilities that inhere in hi def consumer media? (I'm thinking of Ridley Scott and David Fincher here.)

Aaron B., I see that in between the time I got the e-mail of your last post and my coming to the thread proper, you changed "HDMI to HDCP converter cable" to "HDMI to DVI." I was gonna say, "Didn't you mean . . ."

-p

 

[Aaron_Brez]

Yeah, I am dumb. I got way confused by all the acronyms. ROFL, but I should RTFM, no?

 

[willyTass]

Dear Paul S

the thing that made casablanca, star wars etc great experiences was the engrossing story rather than the abscence of edge enhancement, staircasing etc. Don't get me wrong: if 1080p versions were available they would be my first choice I'm just doubting that I'd find the story more riveting.

Unfortunately many TV's that are DVI do not handshake with HDMI products and the forums are rife with examples of these (eg failure to transmit blacker than black)

AFAIK neither Toshiba or Sony will allow HD over component (they claim for content protection reasons). If this is not so I stand corrected.

Of all the Kids who will be buying PS3 how many will have a HDTV with HDMI? Surely Sony/ Toshiba would achieve more crtical mass if high definition was allowed to be sent over widebandwidth component video out.

 

[Paul.S]

Willy:

Welcome to the Forum.

You're conflating a variety of issues that deserve to be addressed discretely (and probably in another thread).


The point is that we don't know for sure yet given that the companies/consortia involved have not stated so explicity. We're ill-served by anyone making broad, unsubstantiated statements about such a vexing issue.

-p

 

[Aaron_Brez]

Willy,

Since the players will put a 480p signal out over component, even though it's not 1080i the "kids who buy PS3" will likely not know the difference. Sad but true. It's not like they'll put on the box, "Doesn't send out a true HD signal unless you have HDMI!" And even if they put it in fine print in the manual-- who reads those (okay, I do, but I'm a freak!)?

I don't think lack of component outs will make a difference to the mass market, because people are, in general, idiots. Studies have shown that people who are watching an HDTV think they are watching a high-def signal regardless of the source, just because they're watching it on an HDTV. People with PS3s will be no different. Or, I would assert, Joe Sixpack who buys an HD disk player of any sort.

Component outs may be a deciding factor for the early adopter community, who are much more savvy than average about this issue. As such, they might spell the difference between a successful launch and a dismal failure, because without the early adopters the stuff sits on shelves and gets no word of mouth, which is critical in the early stages.

That really depends on how broad you want to make the "early adopter" category, how many of them take the risk on buying HDMI-to-component converters which could potentially be disabled, how many of them have HDCP compliant sets already, etc.

 

[Dave Moritz]

Cant wait to see blu-ray on my Samsung SAMHLR5078W 50" DLP 1080p HDTV Who needs 1080i HD-DVD

I have 1/2 of my soon to be 1080p TV paid off as of today and can not wait for Blu-ray to come out. Hopefully this format war will end soon so Denon will put out a blu-ray player. I was thinking of buying a Denon dvd player with a hdmi on it but I think I will wait for a blu-ray/dvd Denon player with hdmi instead. It drives me crazy to think that they are not going to allow hd content via component video. It is more than capible of handling hd content. Its all up to the studios and I just dont see them changing there mind on this one. This will not be the first time they screwed over the public Movie studios and the music business has do it the general public and artist for year and years.

I cant wait to see actual blu-ray titles and see what the artwork and what audio options will be available. I have 0 interest in what HD-DVD will be doing and if they are or are not pushed back any further than they are now.

Blu-ray

HD-DVD :rolleyes

 

[Frank@N]

Walked into my local GameStop and was told the PS3 is going to be delayed.

Not sure what the original timetable was/is (Summer 2006 vs. Winter 2006?).

For whatever reason, I had assumed the Blu-ray format would launch with the PS3.

Anyone else heard anything?

Edit: Here's a link with some info about the delay, it's discussed with regards to gaming, but I believe this will impact the 'format war' as well because the release of the PS3 was to be a crushing blow to HD-DVD...

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050804-5170.html

 

[Aaron_Brez]

Frank,

That article was pure speculation. Not only that, it was speculation about why a securities company might speculate that the PS3 might be delayed. There have been no indications from Sony that the PS3 is anything but on-track to meet their spring '06 date.

 

[Paul.S]

Indeed, I'd hardly expect Sony to issue a press release announcing such a delay.

-p

 

[Aaron_Brez]

[shrug] I'm disillusioned with market analysts of all sorts. They have their own little biases they inject into their decisions, same as you and I, they just spend all day looking at the data rather than the cursory look I have time to give it.

It's still speculation in my book, however "informed" it might appear, until we hear something in the quarterly statements of the PS3 component manufacturers on a lower-than expected number of units ordered or sold.