A Few Words About A few words about...™ West Side Story -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Robert Crawford]

I'm sorry guys, but overall I thought the 4K/Dolby Vision presentation looks beautiful.

 

[Tino]

That’s exactly what I thought without buying it. You took it for the team. Thank you.

Just curious. So Bruce confirmed that detail and colors are improved on the 4K version and you still won’t buy it for $5?

 

[OliverK]

Just curious. So Bruce confirmed that detail and colors are improved on the 4K version and you still won’t buy it for $5?

Can you tell us specific examples of fine detail that is improved over the Blu-ray? I plan to check this out today and as I also recently compared Skyfall for detail differences and it did not turn out as expected it would be good to have a starting point with a scene where you consider it obvious that detail is improved.

With West Side Story I remember the most detailed scenes to be at the beginning where the camera flies over New York. The rest of the movie is either mostly medium or closer shots, or scenes shot at night or indoors and I cannot remember any of those looking very detailed but then it has been some time that I watched WSS.

With colors I cannot imagine this not being an improvement. WSS is quite a colorful movie and I expect that part to be improved together with overall picture dynamics although when the grading is too aggressive I do not see that as much of a bonus.

 

[ahollis]

Just curious. So Bruce confirmed that detail and colors are improved on the 4K version and you still won’t buy it for $5?

I have the Blu-ray and it sounds like it’s the same transfer.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I have the Blu-ray and it sounds like it’s the same transfer.

That doesn't mean the 4K/Dolby Vision video presentation isn't superior to the Blu-ray which it is.

 

[haineshisway]

Whether one enjoys the uptick in detail that 4K gives or not, the real point is this is a decades' old transfer that should have been redone before it EVER went to Blu-ray or 4K. It's really that simple. It's never going to be optimal because with a transfer that old it can't be. It's why the Blu-ray was so derided at the time - the chain link fence jaggies at the beginning - unacceptable. That's been smoothed out on the 4K. The flying shots over NY at the beginning look jerky to me in the 4K - can't remember if that's so on the Blu-ray and I don't really feel like pulling the Blu-ray out. Bottom line: This film is a crown jewel and deserves better, and they're just gussying up what should never have been issued to Blu-ray in the first place. Go back, re-scan with all of today's technologies, do the overture correctly - it's not brain surgery - I've seen the timing notes and they're quite explicit as to the color and where the dissolves occur - and I can assure you if this were done and issued in 4K it would blow everyone's mind.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Whether one enjoys the uptick in detail that 4K gives or not, the real point is this is a decades' old transfer that should have been redone before it EVER went to Blu-ray or 4K. It's really that simple. It's never going to be optimal because with a transfer that old it can't be. It's why the Blu-ray was so derided at the time - the chain link fence jaggies at the beginning - unacceptable. That's been smoothed out on the 4K. The flying shots over NY at the beginning look jerky to me in the 4K - can't remember if that's so on the Blu-ray and I don't really feel like pulling the Blu-ray out. Bottom line: This film is a crown jewel and deserves better, and they're just gussying up what should never have been issued to Blu-ray in the first place. Go back, re-scan with all of today's technologies, do the overture correctly - it's not brain surgery - I've seen the timing notes and they're quite explicit as to the color and where the dissolves occur - and I can assure you if this were done and issued in 4K it would blow everyone's mind.

Bruce,

IMO, I don't think anybody is arguing your point. At least, I'm not arguing that point. I think some of us are just trying to make the best of a bad situation that MGM created. I don't know if I'm still going to be around, if and when MGM corrects this issue so I'll try my best to enjoy what I have in front of me on my LG OLED.

 

[OliverK]

Whether one enjoys the uptick in detail that 4K gives or not, the real point is this is a decades' old transfer that should have been redone before it EVER went to Blu-ray or 4K. It's really that simple. It's never going to be optimal because with a transfer that old it can't be. It's why the Blu-ray was so derided at the time - the chain link fence jaggies at the beginning - unacceptable. That's been smoothed out on the 4K. The flying shots over NY at the beginning look jerky to me in the 4K - can't remember if that's so on the Blu-ray and I don't really feel like pulling the Blu-ray out. Bottom line: This film is a crown jewel and deserves better, and they're just gussying up what should never have been issued to Blu-ray in the first place. Go back, re-scan with all of today's technologies, do the overture correctly - it's not brain surgery - I've seen the timing notes and they're quite explicit as to the color and where the dissolves occur - and I can assure you if this were done and issued in 4K it would blow everyone's mind.

I think that the 4k scan was done ca. 2010 or 2011 so it is not that old, it only looks like it to you

The jerky movement may be because your Apple TV is defaulting to 4k 60 HDR or it is the app on your TV that is playing up so movement could look jerky because of 3:2 pulldown judder.

I think we all agree that WSS deserves better, unfortunately those who could do something about it seem to be happy with it as is but then these may be the same people who say that the negative of The Alamo is in good shape...

 

[Tino]

I have the Blu-ray and it sounds like it’s the same transfer.

Yeah and.....You didn’t answer my question.

 

[ahollis]

Yeah and.....You didn’t answer my question.

I don’t intend on buying it. The colors may look richer, but the overture sequence is still not fixed. Not gonna keep buying a copy of something that is not correct. I bought the first Blu-ray and was disappointed with the opening, bought the corrected disc and it still wasn’t correct. Why buy, even for 5 bucks, a flawed, and I’m saying because posters have said it’s not fixed, download.

 

[JPCinema]

It's only $4.99 on iTunes. It DOES look better than the Blu Ray. Hopefully a 4K disc will be released: but really for now you're cutting your nose off to spite your face.

 

[ahollis]

It's only $4.99 on iTunes. It DOES look better than the Blu Ray. Hopefully a 4K disc will be released: but really for now you're cutting your nose off to spite your face.

Each to their own. Fix the opening sequence then I’ll give it a try.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Each to their own. Fix the opening sequence then I’ll give it a try.

It's your money and standards so I respect that and that's all that needs to be said.

 

[Robert Crawford]

It's only $4.99 on iTunes. It DOES look better than the Blu Ray. Hopefully a 4K disc will be released: but really for now you're cutting your nose off to spite your face.

It's their nose and face so it's best to just drop it.

 

[OliverK]

I don’t intend on buying it. The colors may look richer, but the overture sequence is still not fixed. Not gonna keep buying a copy of something that is not correct. I bought the first Blu-ray and was disappointed with the opening, bought the corrected disc and it still wasn’t correct. Why buy, even for 5 bucks, a flawed, and I’m saying because posters have said it’s not fixed, download.

It is always a good thing to vote with your wallet in these matters, unfortunately I could not resist the urge to check it out so I bought it.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

I'm sorry guys, but overall I thought the 4K/Dolby Vision presentation looks beautiful.

We watched the 4K/DV transfer a couple of evenings ago after I picked it up on iTunes for $4.99 (actually $3.99, since it came off my account balance created from some of those 20% off iTunes gift cards). I thought the added resolution and color gamut really made a difference in the image. My wife sold my BD for $6, so I came out ahead money-wise and am happy with this transfer.

 

[Tino]

It is always a good thing to vote with your wallet in these matters, unfortunately I could not resist the urge to check it out so I bought it.

And was it worth it?

 

[SeanSKA]

With the remake due late next year, and a revival soon opening on Broadway, who wants to bet that Criterion will put this out sometime very soon ?

 

[OliverK]

And was it worth it?

Yes and no. Yes because I wanted to see for myself and now I did, no because overall I do not see the itunes version as an improvement for me when compared to the Blu-ray that actually has very good detail most of the time. I had hoped for added resolution or at least no downsides in that area but after doing an A/B with my upscaled Blu-ray I noticed that there may be an added perception of resolution due to higher contrast and brightness but textures and film grain are actually slightly diminished upon closer inspection especially in some of the rooftops in the beginning and resolution is a bit smoothed out, too. I have not watched all of it but from what I remember this sequence in the beginning is the only one that shows a lot of fine detail in daylight as opposed to mostly medium shots, scenes shot at night and closeups later in the movie.

Now mind you I use a top of the line scaler for the Blu-ray and I am sitting very close but overall it confirms my impression that I had when seeing WSS in 70mm: It is just not as detailed as Lawrence of Arabia or Samsara and this also shows on itunes where the other two movies show a noticable increase in detail (if not textures) over the already excellent Blu-ray versions but WSS does not.

My hunch is that the 4k master used just does not have that much detail to start with and the same probably goes for the negative when compared to more detailed productions like Lawrence of Arabia or Samsara. I am not sure that we would see that much more fine detail even with a perfect 8k harvest of the OCN, WSS just like 2001 just is not the most detailed of large format productions.

The colors and contrast show some improvement though but I find the HDR to go a bit too far and to me it needs some toning down to be more faithful to the look of the 70mm presentation but then I am rather conservative with how I want my movies to look. Overall the itunes presentation will probably be an upgrade for most others as has also been mentioned in this thread by you but it isn't for me.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Fair enough, but on my LG OLED via Oppo 203, the 4K/DV digital is a noticeable improvement over the Blu-ray.