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A Few Words About A few words about...™ West Side Story -- in Blu-ray

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Robert Harris, Oct 25, 2011.

  1. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    IMO, it looks a lot better than the HD version. Anyhow, if people have problems with that fade out and fade in issue then that's on MGM not you. I bought this HD digital on iTunes for $4.99 last Christmas during a sale when I bought several digital titles that iTunes had on sale. I never expected it to be upgraded to 4K/Dolby Vision.
     
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  2. OliverK

    OliverK Producer

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    Did anybody get the chance to compare the level of detail with the Blu-ray version?

    WSS never struck me as extremely detailed compared to other large format productions so I wonder how much of an improvement over the Blu-ray it could be in 4k.
     
  3. MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    HDNet Movies somehow managed to get a master out of MGM that did not have that fade.

    This is why I bristle when people try to excuse shoddy work by saying "can't you just enjoy it?" It's hard to enjoy something you know is a technical mistake that was not intended for inclusion by the people who made the film.
     
  4. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
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    Who is making excuses and telling you to just enjoy it?
     
  5. Message #1105 of 1144 Nov 28, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2019
    MatthewA

    MatthewA Lead Actor

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    No one in this thread, and I do not mean to give that impression, but in general whenever problems such as this arise. The studio seems unaware or indifferent that something is amiss, but viewers can tell the difference. It is the studio whom I feel has this take-it-or-leave-it attitude. Once in particular I remember Robert A. Harris being in a similar conversation about a DVD of The Sound of Music, if you wish to compare apples to oranges*, that suffered from edge enhancement problems difficult to notice on small screens. I tried to find the specific post, but only found threads about the DVDs and Blu-rays that came after it. He had to defend himself for having high technical standards for the movies he watches.

    My point is that a major studio release should not have had a glaring error of this nature, and I don't know why they still haven't fixed it yet. They could be waiting for a 60th anniversary/remake tie-in to do something about it. Like the first post in this thread said, they offered a fix that didn't actually fix it. But that they have allowed it to stand since 2011, even in 4k, feels like an insult to Saul Bass, in my opinion. His titles are as iconic as the film's score and dancing.

    What I still do not understand is at what point "mistakes were made," as they say. At what stage of the technical process of creating this transfer did someone push the wrong button?

    *i.e. Robert Wise movies about women named Maria.
     
  6. haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    I saw this film in 70mm many, many times during its original run and the detail was INCREDIBLE. So, yes, if this had a proper transfer it would look a hundred times better.
     
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  7. Message #1107 of 1144 Nov 29, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
    OliverK

    OliverK Producer

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    I watched this three times in 70mm with the last screening taking place not that long ago so I never really felt the need to watch my Blu-ray. My impression when I spot checked it back then was that it was of good quality but re-reading the first post I obviously did not check the opticals. Depending on the number of opticals this surely would be a bigger issue than just a fade-in/fade-out instead of a dissolve leading into the main titles, inexcusable as it is. And the opticals would stick out even more with a 4k version if the other parts of the movie really show a resolution increase.

    Edit: opticals / dissolve mixup fixed
     
  8. Tino

    Tino Executive Producer
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    I have. And the 4K is noticeably superior with increased detail and colors. The 4K looks tremendous despite the “fade” issue.
     
  9. Mark-P

    Mark-P Producer

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    I'm going to totally disagree. Now that I have the 4K iTunes and compared it to the Blu-ray which was completely fade to black, this is different with a slow dissolve from red to blue. The red fades out, but the city outline remains completely visible and then the blue fades in. So this is fix #2 which may not be exactly as it was originally but they did eliminate the complete black-out.

    I concur!
     
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  10. OliverK

    OliverK Producer

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    I think that the idea was to have it correct not to have a version that is only less wrong. That being said it is preferable to a complete fade to black.

    I also went for today's offer on itunes as I am really curious to see how much detail is improved over the Blu-ray. This is only the third large format classic available in 4k so I could not resist.
     
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  11. trajan007

    trajan007 Second Unit

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    Bring on the 4K disc.
     
  12. ahollis

    ahollis Lead Actor
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    this sounds like the fix MGM did after the outcry on the first disc. I have the second one, not correct, but better than the first.
     
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  13. haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    That is NOT the fix that MGM did - they merely tried dissolving, but couldn't because the transfer they were using had a completely loopy fade to green - and there's a frame or two of that green in the fixed version, if memory serves, but if I'm misremembering, it still was not correct. And I simply don't believe they fixed it for some 4K version and didn't tell a single soul anywhere, unless they're saving that news for an upcoming 4K/Blu release. Can you post screen shots of what you say you're seeing?
     
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  14. Neil S. Bulk

    Neil S. Bulk Screenwriter

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  15. Message #1115 of 1144 Dec 20, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
    haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    I'm willing to take the chance - but I click on the link, go to buy it, put in my Apple ID and then it says it's only available in the US and that it's switching me to that store, which it doesn't. I don't get it.

    Straightened out the issue with Apple. Watched the first forty minutes - I think it's pretty clear it's the same transfer as the Blu-ray, with the iffy fix applied to the Overture - same slight gate weave in the overture and the grain is a bit too think there. Yes, it's got a bit more detail here and the colors do seem more vivid.
     
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  16. Message #1116 of 1144 Dec 20, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2019
    Mark-P

    Mark-P Producer

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    Working on it, Bruce. I recorded the transition by shooting the projected image on my iPhone. As soon as the Youtube video processes I'll embed it here. By the way, whatever you do, don't buy it at Vudu as you won't be able to see the new version unless you have a 4K setup. iTunes on the other hand has the new version for all resolutions.

     
  17. haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    Yes, it still fades, just like before, and if you look really carefully at the end of the fade you'll see that the city lines are indeed visible but a shade of green - the green was a mistake in this years' old transfer done for DVD - there it was green for several seconds before going to blue. So, in doing the Blu-ray, as several of us have explained many times, they put in the fade to black to cover up those green frames, fading up after them. In the "fix" they merely fade (there was NEVER any fades in this sequence) but leave a second of the green frame up and that is what dissolves into the blue.
     
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  18. lark144

    lark144 Supporting Actor

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    Just to support Bruce here; as someone who saw this film in a theater many times, it's not supposed to fade to black at all during the overture. There is supposed to be a slow dissolve from red to blue, but as Bruce points out, on the DVD master, it dissolved from red to green to blue, and apparently MGM is still using that ancient DVD master for their 4k, because if they went back to the original A&B rolls, there would be a red dissolving into blue. No need for a fade. What was a bit ironic is that on the original DVD release, they included a memo that director Robert Wise sent to all theater managers detailing what lights in the house should be dimmed at the specific color changes during the overture, and it specifically states how when the red dissolves to blue, the remainder of the house lights should be dimmed. Nothing about green or any fades to black. Poor Mr. Wise must be turning in his grave over this!
     
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  19. ahollis

    ahollis Lead Actor
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    That’s exactly what I thought without buying it. You took it for the team. Thank you.
     
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  20. ahollis

    ahollis Lead Actor
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    It’s funny. the DVD used to be my go to for picture and sound. But with the mess up with the “Overture” I have not shown the “corrected” Blu-ray to anyone. That’s so sad.
     

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