A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Sound of Music -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[haineshisway]

First off, sounds like there were projector issues in that 70mm showing, both with the brightness and the focus - the 70mm prints on this film have always been absolutely amazing. There was nothing, even in the darkest scenes, that couldn't be seen in those original prints and the one that played at the Plitt, which I also saw.

Sad about Charmian - I went to a party at her house seven years ago (a friend of mine was close with her and was having a little Do that Charmian hosted. We met, we really had fun chatting, and I gave her a copy of the Evening Primrose CD that we'd just issued - she was thrilled to have it. A few months later, in fact, exactly seven years ago to THIS DAY, we had dinner at a nearby restaurant and that was just a really wonderful evening. We gabbed, we ate, and she was just a warm, wonderful gal.

 

[cinemiracle]

First off, sounds like there were projector issues in that 70mm showing, both with the brightness and the focus - the 70mm prints on this film have always been absolutely amazing. There was nothing, even in the darkest scenes, that couldn't be seen in those original prints and the one that played at the Plitt, which I also saw.

Sad about Charmian - I went to a party at her house seven years ago (a friend of mine was close with her and was having a little Do that Charmian hosted. We met, we really had fun chatting, and I gave her a copy of the Evening Primrose CD that we'd just issued - she was thrilled to have it. A few months later, in fact, exactly seven years ago to THIS DAY, we had dinner at a nearby restaurant and that was just a really wonderful evening. We gabbed, we ate, and she was just a warm, wonderful gal.

Here's hoping that EVENING PRIMROSE will be released on bluray in the future..

 

[Race Bannon]

Thanks for the detailed comparison on the 70mm. I'm one of those that loves the blu-ray transfer.

 

[RobertSiegel]

Thank you KPMustang for the comparison I wish I could have been there just to see it on such a screen. Can you tell us if the overall film looked more like the blu-ray with the brown and green tones taking over completely or the 40th anniversary edition which was closer to all previous editions and the Wise-approved laserdisc box set. I don't remember it looking anything like the new edition but in the theaters more like the 40th where there were alot more blues and pinks, nothing outlandish but I remember that much more.

Thanks for posting on Julie's hair, I always remember it blonde in all scenes, there may have been a slight difference due to the hair dye issues but I never remember her being a redhead in the film.

I assume since there was no hiss in the sound that this was the newly re-done soundtrack which sadly Fox will probably continue to use. As I always say and have said before here, if there is no tape hiss from a pre-1970 magnetic stereo film, the hiss has been removed with most likely the highest of the high end of the soundtrack. I won't go again into how upset this makes me.

 

[KPmusmag]

Thank you KPMustang for the comparison I wish I could have been there just to see it on such a screen. Can you tell us if the overall film looked more like the blu-ray with the brown and green tones taking over completely or the 40th anniversary edition which was closer to all previous editions and the Wise-approved laserdisc box set. I don't remember it looking anything like the new edition but in the theaters more like the 40th where there were alot more blues and pinks, nothing outlandish but I remember that much more.

Thanks for posting on Julie's hair, I always remember it blonde in all scenes, there may have been a slight difference due to the hair dye issues but I never remember her being a redhead in the film.

I assume since there was no hiss in the sound that this was the newly re-done soundtrack which sadly Fox will probably continue to use. As I always say and have said before here, if there is no tape hiss from a pre-1970 magnetic stereo film, the hiss has been removed with most likely the highest of the high end of the soundtrack. I won't go again into how upset this makes me.

My impression is that the 70mm I saw Saturday was more like the 40th edition and the laserdisc box. As I said, I marveled at how the color remained so consistent for all 3 hours.

 

[PMF]

I flew to Seattle to see SOM in 70mm at the Seattle Cinerama theater as part of their 70mm film festival. [...]
The manager also told me that he hates film festivals, he only wants to play new movies. [...]
I accept that equipment fails, s%^& happens etc. But after traveling over 1700 miles and spending upwards of $1000 I cannot deny that I was bitterly, bitterly disappointed.

They don't get it, they just don't get it.
I despise these idiotic individuals who serve as "Managers".
These "Managers" ought to be preempted during such festivals and not allowed to be seen.
These festivals should contractually demand an expert projectionist in-house.
I feel for you, KPmusmag.
Meanwhile, how can any theater advertise a 70mm Film Festival while, consequently, not displaying the given title with true projection and an actual celluloid print?

 

[RobertSiegel]

"My impression is that the 70mm I saw Saturday was more like the 40th edition and the laserdisc box. As I said, I marveled at how the color remained so consistent for all 3 hours."

That is what I suspected. Many people seem to be happy with what's on the blu-ray. I love the clarity, everything is so detailed and my hats off to Fox for that, but the color is absolutely wrong throughout the entire film. Houses are different colors, hair is wrong, lakes are not as blue, ect. Robert Wise approved the laserdisc box set which is very similar to the 40th anniversary DVD, THAT is what I remember over a hundred times in many different theaters. For a home video department to take it upon themselves to re-color an entire film as popular as this one and change the entire palette and then remove sound effects and the high end of the sound is an absolute travesty. I call this a huge case of "Over Remastering".

In the short documentary on the restoration of the picture in the extras, they show the man at the computer coloring the film, they show how they can change the grass of the opening scene to purple or whatever they want and a voice is heard saying "We needed to decide just how green to make the grass." Why not compare it to Wise's approved transfer. Then they later say they had a good 70mm print on which to work off for the color, but here you say the print you saw (which was provided by Fox) looked like the older master of the DVD, as ALL 70mm prints have looked according to many people I have talked to who have seen it. And during the documentary on the sound, you see a sound man on the computer mixing the movie, and he actually SHOWS US how he takes off the high end to get rid of the noise (he actually says it), the noise is a certain color on the computer screen and if you look closely when he removed everything from a certain point going upward (higher frequency), there are other colors in that area, which is the highest end sounds which would cut off the very high frequency of horns, cymbals, and many other things. Watch these, you will see what I mean. They actually show them removing the high end.

I am sorry to carry and express such anger, but this is my all time favorite movie and I have purchased every single version and it's never been right and there is no excuse with the blu-ray. They did a better job on the 40th anniversary edtion, which was the one shown on ABC TV for some time in HD. THAT would have made a more realistic version similar to what was shown in 1965 and thereafter in theaters, but it was not as detailed, that part they did a fantastic job on. I have the ABC version recorded on my DISH external hard drive from several years, but one year we had a storm and so there are warnings from the weather service, and the problem with that version is they showed the film in 16:9.

 

[warnerbro]

I believe the Todd A-0 title card was removed from the pan-and-scan version on VHS because (technically) it was not in Todd-A0. As far as the sound on the bluray, there are actual instances of parts of lines and sound effects completely deleted. Julie's line after the Captain tears down the swastika flag: "Oh, Max, what did they say?" is cut off where it sounds like "Oh, Max, what did they --". Her thigh slap at the beginning is gone. Her smooch sound where she blows Charmian a kiss where Maria returns is gone. Also, the flute trills on that song refrain are completely gone. It's like scrubbing the paint off a rare painting because it has some dust on it.I am so saddened about the passing of lovely Charmian Carr. She is one of the best parts of the movie and what makes it work. I'm convinced behind the inspirational story, beautiful music, beautiful scenery, Julie Andrews is what makes this film great. She gives it a joy that is infectious. The screenplay by Ernest Lehman which is subtle and thoughtful. Christopher Plummer is very strong and his changes to the character and script give it weight. The play is nothing like the film and I think very weak. It is a completely different script and the characters are totally different from the film. They are the same characters but their personalities and their dialogue are completely different. Charmian Carr also gives the film charm and joy and her transition from mean, selfish, immature girl to a fine young lady is something to watch. Another interesting thing is -- she was the first shot filmed and the last. The first shot filmed was her climbing through the window wet. The last shot filmed was her screaming: "Weeeeeeeeee!" at the end of "Sixteen Going On Seventeen." So long, farewell. We'll stay and take our first champagne always thinking of you.

 

[PMF]

Charmian Carr.
If ever there were a beauty.
It was years before I discovered that she wasn't European;
but the dye was cast and no American girl could get near me.
She was one of those luminescents whose presence I shall never outgrow.
Who would have imagined that of the Von Trapp Family Singers it would be she to leave us first.
"So Long, Farewell" to our dearest and most beloved Liesl.

 

[WilliamMcK]

A bit off-topic, but I just wanted to put in a defense of the original stage play by Howard Lindsay and Russell Crouse. It's actually a very well constructed book for a musical... and Hammerstein "spotted" the songs flawlessly ("My Favorite Things" on stage helps to build up a rapport between the Mother Abbess and Maria that culminates at the end of the first act in "Climb Ev'ry Mountain"). While it may be the weakest of the R&H "Big 5" (Oklahoma!, Carousel, South Pacific, The King and I being the other four), it's still very stage worthy and produced properly (no tinkering to make it more like the movie) it's an excellent musical play.

None of this is to dismiss what Ernest Lehman and Robert Wise achieved in adapting it for the screen ... but the single thing that makes the movie more memorable than the play (well... aside from the flawless casting) was the inspired idea (Ernest Lehman's? Robert Wise's?) of making Saltzburg another character in the story. The "Do-Re-Mi" sequence alone sets THE SOUND OF MUSIC above all other movie adaptations of stage musicals.

As for the color and sound of the blu-ray... I agree with those who are very disappointed and find the brownish look and clipped high-end sound very unfortunate.

So long, Ms. Carr... you will be remembered!

 

[KPmusmag]

I believe the Todd A-0 title card was removed from the pan-and-scan version on VHS because (technically) it was not in Todd-A0. .

The Todd-AO credit is also missing on the very first widescreen laserdisc (the awful one with terrible color and the side turn in the middle of Do-Re-Mi). I thought I read somewhere that it did not appear in any 35mm prints, but I could be wrong.

 

[Rob_Ray]

Robert -- while I feel your pain about the brownish color and over-processed sound on the blu ray (and agree with you to a large extent), I must point out that you have to take Mr. Wise's approval of the laserdisc with a large grain of salt. Laserdisc is not blu ray and what may have safisfied Mr. Wise in 1994 may not have satisfied him decades later. It may have been a case of "well, this is as good as it's going to look on video." And, director-approved or not, the gazebo scene on the laserdisc was nothing like I ever saw in a theatre. The color was almost completely drained out.

I could live with the color (although it's not true to what I saw in theatres either), but I do wish they would take another stab at restoring the sound without trying to hide anything.

 

[John Maher_289910]

I saw THE SOUND OF MUSIC in 70MM over 50 times, during its original roadshow engagement, and in 1973 re-release, and there isn't a second of the film that is too dark to make out someone's face or appearance. While I find some color issues with the Blu-ray, my biggest issue with it, is the soundtrack, which is botched.

 

[PMF]

I could live with the color (although it's not true to what I saw in theatres either), but I do wish they would take another stab at restoring the sound without trying to hide anything.

It should be demanded, especially with the advent of 4K.
Thus the title, Mr. Belston.
It's called "the SOUND of music".
Please bring back the "Happiest Sound" in all the world and give these Oscar winning tracks their proper due.
If you're looking for 4K sales, then the "Restored Sound" would be -respectfully - a marketing no-brainer.
I would also suggest that any future 4K edition should include the option of BOTH sound designs, in order to create a win-win situation for all "SOM" enthusiasts.

On a final note, if anyone at 20th Century-Fox could finally unlock the much debated Rubik's Cube of "The Sound of Music" color palate, then the combined one-two punch of "Restored Picture and Sound" on such a 4K offering would become both a coup and a Belston Best to beat the band.

 

[Peter Apruzzese]

They don't get it, they just don't get it.
I despise these idiotic individuals who serve as "Managers".
These "Managers" ought to be preempted during such festivals and not allowed to be seen.
These festivals should contractually demand an expert projectionist in-house.
I feel for you, KPmusmag.
Meanwhile, how can any theater advertise a 70mm Film Festival while, consequently, not displaying the given title with true projection and an actual celluloid print?

Well, the manager runs the floor and the projectionist runs the booth. I'm not certain you'd want to visit a venue that doesn't have a manager running the floor. Not excusing his bad attitude, but I'm sure not everyone was as easy-going as KP during the tech problem.

And the Seattle has full time expert projectionists, not sure how someone else could predict a catastrophic equipment failure. Perhaps HAL-9000 could, but we know how that worked out.

Having been a projectionist and obsessing over the quality of presentation (probably to the detriment of my mental health at the time) of repertory programming, I'm certain the booth staff was just as unhappy about the equipment failure for that show.

 

[Mike Frezon]

Kevin: Thanks for your observations after taking-in that 70mm viewing.

Interesting reading.

 

[John Gilmore]

A bit off-topic, but I just wanted to put in a defense of the original stage play by Howard Lindsay and Russell Crouse. It's actually a very well constructed book for a musical...

Even though the NBC Live production was very uneven, it did preserve the book of the original play, which I think is invaluable. I actually came away with the feeling that the "Captain, Maria, Baroness" triangle was handed in a more adult fashion in the play as opposed to the film.

 

[RobertSiegel]

Robert -- while I feel your pain about the brownish color and over-processed sound on the blu ray (and agree with you to a large extent), I must point out that you have to take Mr. Wise's approval of the laserdisc with a large grain of salt. Laserdisc is not blu ray and what may have safisfied Mr. Wise in 1994 may not have satisfied him decades later. It may have been a case of "well, this is as good as it's going to look on video." And, director-approved or not, the gazebo scene on the laserdisc was nothing like I ever saw in a theatre. The color was almost completely drained out.

I could live with the color (although it's not true to what I saw in theatres either), but I do wish they would take another stab at restoring the sound without trying to hide anything.

I hear what you are saying but Wise didn't look at the laserdisc in 480 resolution he was at the studio looking at the high resolution scans, but I was only using the laserdisc as a starting point, it was the same color scheme used in the 40th anniversary which looked alot better, probably a remastered version of the laserdisc transfer because after checking a few months ago and comparing, it's exactly the same color. I have the feeling if he were alive today he would not approve of the blu-ray. The problem we have is that there are younger people working on transfers nowadays that have no idea what this looked like in 1965 or 1973 for the reissue. So it seems to me there seems to be alot of guessing. They say they had a 70mm print they compared to but I don't believe it, no 70mm print ever looked so completely brown and yellow and green like the blu-ray does.

 

[PMF]

The problem we have is that there are younger people working on transfers nowadays that have no idea what this looked like in 1965 or 1973 for the reissue. So it seems to me there seems to be a lot of guessing.

Why on earth are "younger people" even allowed to go near these national treasures?
"Younger people" should be nothing more than runners, until there is a complete understanding of what it is that they should be seeking, uncovering, capturing and attaining.
It's not the age that bothers me, its the lack of mastery and expertise.
This is not a field for "a lot of guessing";
as this would be akin to watching an untrained actor attempting Shakespeare at The Bristol Old Vic.
For the 400-year keepers of the Bard's gate, it simply would not be allowed.

Rolls Royce's are never handled by first-time car owners;
And 70mm is not a place for beginners, either.

Quoting a John Houseman ad, "We don't make our money, we earn it".
The same must apply for the newest and youngest generation of so-called archivists.
Until it has been earned, nary a one should handle those sole OCN's of our global film heritage.

​

 

[KPmusmag]

Well, the manager runs the floor and the projectionist runs the booth. I'm not certain you'd want to visit a venue that doesn't have a manager running the floor. Not excusing his bad attitude, but I'm sure not everyone was as easy-going as KP during the tech problem.

And the Seattle has full time expert projectionists, not sure how someone else could predict a catastrophic equipment failure. Perhaps HAL-9000 could, but we know how that worked out.

Having been a projectionist and obsessing over the quality of presentation (probably to the detriment of my mental health at the time) of repertory programming, I'm certain the booth staff was just as unhappy about the equipment failure for that show.

Thanks, Peter for your comment. I do want to be clear that I blame neither the manager nor the projectionist for the equipment failure. I have equipment failures at work from time to time and clients get very upset with me but I have literally no control over it until repairs are made or replacements procured, so I sympathize with their plight that day, especially with a full house.

My frustration with the manager was more that he became exasperated with me very quickly despite my remaining absolutely polite and matter of fact. I just wanted some acknowledgement that he understood that I had traveled a long way and was disappointed, but he was not interested in classic film so my position was a bit lost on him. I think he did his best under difficult circumstances. His superiors were not able to be reached by phone at the time of the crisis and he had to proceed as best he could with no support from management. He was obviously having a very bad day, plus he had to worry about the film they were showing that night which was sold out. He did offer free concessions to the whole house, which must have set them back a pretty penny.

As for the projectionist, the presentation this Saturday was smooth with no hitch. reel changes, etc., all perfect. Despite my bad luck at being there on the day the equipment failed, my hats are off to them for holding a 70mm festival, which are few and farther between. I plan to go back any time I am able.