A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Professionals -- in Blu-Ray (1 Viewer)

[Paul Arnette]

I know that a lot of people are tired of the 'negativity' here, but, like Paul_Scott, I'm being asked to pay a premium price and not receiving a premium product, in my opinion, when I see results like 'Patton', 'The Longest Day', 'The Professionals' (too a much lesser degree I will admit), and now, most recently, 'Gangs of New York'.

The studios have kind of got me in a Catch 22, as I have no intention to go back to SD DVD at this point; but I no longer feel it is safe to pre-order anything on BD so I am stopping that practice immediately until I have read some reviews. Additionally, the cost of hardware and software coupled with the amount of frustration I have experienced over the past month or two with certain titles has virtually assured that I won't be recommending this format to any of my family and friends for quite awhile. :frowning:

 

[OliverK]

I think there should be a standard set of options regarding what we should be able to do with subtitles in general:

Subtitles SHOULD be made movable

Subtitles SHOULD be made more like closed captions in that the viewer can decide about their size, font and color. This functionality can be had with closed captioning, a MyHD and most HBO movies for quite some time now and I would say it is about time we get that ability on the most high end home theater medium of them all !

Of course

Subtitles already CAN be programmed to be turned off by the viewer

Subtitles already CAN be programmed in different languages, with added information for the hearing impaired and for those that just don't understand the spoken language of the movie, it would be nice to have more options to choose from for most discs

With that kind of functionality implemented one viewer can have no subtitles at all and another one can have huge yellow subtitles in the middle of the picture - I can always dream I guess

 

[Brandon Conway]

Sony encodes their subtitles to have forced narratives appear when the language is active/off. The narrative subtitles are the exact same ones that are contained within the full subtitle stream; those particular parts are simply flagged to appear when the subtitle stream is in the "off" setting.

 

[Paul Hillenbrand]

Paul

 

[Paul Arnette]

Paul, I had already noticed your post on blu-ray.com so I didn't feel compelled to write another response basically reiterating the same thing. I do appreciate your efforts though.

 

[Robert Crawford]

If "The Professionals" BRD is not a premium product then I'm afraid this format is doom to excessive expectations not being met according to some consumer standards






Crawdaddy

 

[Paul_Scott]

Sorry, Robert. I call BS on that.


I'm not contesting that they got the visuals and audio mostly right. They did a laudable job in that respect. But while it is the major, it is not the entire aspect in regards to presentation. Even putting aside the likliehood that they were never intended to be seen in the first place, having them non-removable and non resizable as they are here, in essence modifys the aspect ratio of the presentation from 2.35:1 to 16:9 (or something like 2:1) because it essentially makes the black bars (at least on the bottom) a mandatory part of the image. Can I live with it? Yeah...but it chaffes when the format is presented (and priced) as a premium product for discerning viewers and I buy it only to see immediately it is not a definitive presentation. I merely traded one issue (resolution) for another( a compromised AR).
Sorry that I can't share your excitement about that.I thank Paul H for his efforts (and he is spot on about the use of masks. I tried them when I briefly owned an RP and quickly became a true believer-THEY WORK!).
Sorry, but I hope a future pressing of this title 'fixes' this, because it is a problem that is going to affect a number of enthusiasts who are actively looking for higher performance with scope aspect material. That includes both constant heighters and maskers. Anyone content to use the awesome potential here with no aspirations beyond viewing on a 16:9 display without even masking, is not someone I expect to understand the level of annoyance with this.

 

[Paul Arnette]

There are a lot of BDs and DVDs that have this problem. That, obviously, doesn't make it right; but if we cannot complain about such things, in this forum of all places, in an effort to shed some light on these problems without being made to feel as though our issues are unreasonable, by our very own peers, then I'm afraid that is far more damning to this hobby.

In fact, my main issue isn't even about the placement of the subs, which would be easily fixed by taking OliverK's suggestions to heart, some Java coding, and some standardization (i.e. mandatory studio support). My issue is that 'forcing' the Spanish subs may have inadvertantly affected the director's intent. Many times in films foreign languages are delibertly not translated to make the viewer feel uneasy, isolated, confused, etc.

The fact that someone who has this film in their Top 10 doesn't seem to care about this issue is sad. The fact that studios don't seem to have anyone available to answer these questions before pressing a disc is depressing.

 

[Paul_Scott]

Paul A, you and I are in complete agreement. They should not even be there in the first place.
And forcing me to alter my set up for one film, to accommodate something that shouldn't be there in the first place is what really burns my beans here.

 

[Michael Reuben]

If you're referring to my colleague Robert Crawford, I see nothing to indicate that he "doesn't . . . care" about the problem. He merely said that it doesn't interfere with his own enjoyment of the film. There's a difference.

M.

 

[Robert Crawford]

No comment in return.

However, I'm sorry your enjoyment level is compromised with this issue.





Crawdaddy

 

[Robert Crawford]

No further comment is necessary as Michael Reuben has explained my position on this matter.





Crawdaddy

 

[OliverK]

While I am guilty myself of elaborating on the matter of subtitles in this thread I would think that this is not the place to go into more detail on them, except for the matter of the translation or non-translation of the spanish subs and the decision to make them mandatory or not which by the way seems to have been covered sufficiently.

Subtitles within back bars truly are very annoying but the problem affects, to my knowledge, all Warner Cinemascope titles, too and I am sure a few others.
So let's make a thread for this or even a general subtitling praise and complaints thread and if we update it with every movie that has subtitles in the black bars it will pretty much stay close to the top until the subtitles are made movable. BTW: Most people with 16:9 sets or screens that do not do masking prefer the subs to be within the black bars so I think that making them movable is the only solution that pleases all.

 

[DavidJ]

No, but this site and RAH's glowing review of the transfer as well as your and others' obvious enthusiasm for the film really made me want to seek it out. And it was a film that slipped by me before now (there just isn't anyway to see them all). I just rented it, but it is one that in time will probably be added to my collection. I enjoyed it immensely and look forward to sharing it with others.

I thought the transfer was pretty good, but it sure did have a lot of grain. I wish there was some way to digitally remove stuff like that.

 

[Robert Harris]

The humor is granted, but the problem still exists today as it did 15 years ago or so when Snow White was first digitally cleaned at Cinesite.

And this is extremely unfortunate.

While many facilities have learned from the errors of others, in the case of Snow, the removal of birds eyes by automatic dust-busting, or the rain in Kane, others still don't have the understanding that digital tools, while they can be powerful and helpful, are an enormous detriment in the wrong hands or through the wrong eyes.

 

[Edwin-S]

I just purchased this film in a 20 dollar two pack with "The Quick and The Dead" starring Sharon Stone. I can't remember ever seeing this, so for all intents and purposes this was my first viewing of the film. This film was a pleasant surprise. Judging by the cover art, I was expecting a cheesy 'B' western, but I couldn't have been more wrong. This film was a tightly plotted, fantastically shot gem. There are a lot of modern cinematographers and directors who could take some lessons from this film on how to frame and shoot an action scene. The Hacienda attack in this film is just one example. At no time did a viewer ever lose the sense of where everyone was in geographic space and yet the violence of the scene was only on a bit smaller scale than that in "The Wild Bunch". I actually think the violence in the attack, bloodless as it was, may have been better done than in "TWB" attack purely on the basis that it didn't seem as over-the-top.


I also thought it was unusual sound choice when


Cardinale's character's scream was drowned out by the water tower explosion. By doing that, the point was really driven home on just how loud, violent and disruptive the explosion really was. In most movies, the sound of her screaming would have been front and centre, especially nowadays.


Anyway, that was just a small detail that struck me.


The dialogue and interplay between Lee Marvin and Burt Lancaster was also a high point, as was the "philisophical" dialogue between Lancaster and Palance, who (I am ashamed to say) I didn't even recognize until I read the end credits. Watching actors like Marvin, Palance and Lancaster work together is a treat. The understated dynamic going on between these guys just doesn't show up very often between actors in the films of today.

There were so many well constructed and shot scenes in this film that I can't begin to name them all, but one other scene that particularly struck me was the train escape. That was just a beautifully shot sequence. If that scene were shot today it would consist of nothing but shaky cam and quick cuts of hooves, arms, legs, horse's heads and men's faces.


Amongst other good lines, the ones that I really got a chuckle out of were the last two lines between Bellamy's Grant and Marvin's Fardan. That exchange, IMO, was just classic.


The PQ on the blu-ray was outstanding. It is hard to believe that a film shot in 1966 could be made to look as good as it did. You almost could have sworn it was shot yesterday. The only thing that really gave it away as an older film was the sound. The sound was good, but it definitely didn't have the dynamic range of modern tracks and parts of it did have a bit of a sharp, "tinny" sound; however, it more than adequately did the job.


All-in-all, this was a most impressive package in picture, sound and story quality.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Edwin,


I'm glad you enjoyed this fine film as it's one of my personal favorites from the time I first viewed it in a movie theater over 40 years ago. IMO, the dialogue in it is among the best ever written for a western or action film which isn't surprising since the underrated Richard Brooks directed and wrote this film. Also, I think Conrad Hall's cinematography is among his most impressive works. Furthermore, I agree with you that the actors had some good film chemistry that you sometimes don't see in today's action films.





Crawdaddy

 

[GMpasqua]

Watching "The Professionals" (1966) blu-ray on my plasma set. All I can say is "WOW"


This film looks great (and It's 45 years old) Great job SONY!


Hopefully more SONY Releases will look this good. I have already pre-ordered "Bridge and the River Kwai" and "Tommy"


Still waiting for "Lawrence of Arabia" "Oliver!" "Bye Bye Birdie" "1776" and "Lord JIm"

If "The Professionals" looks this good, the others are pre-order purchases too.


"Bell, Book and Candle" "Picnic" and "Pal Joey" would also be nice (All have just been remastered for the Kim Novak Box set)

 

[benbess]

I'm enjoying this film a lot. Classic Western. Great PQ. And it's available in a bargain two pack with Quick and the Dead. I wonder how much it cost to prepare this film for blu-ray. I bet a pretty penny. And I wonder if they made that back...


I wish more Westerns could get this treatment. Any nominations? How about Shane?

 

[oscar_merkx]

Originally Posted by Robert Crawford

So it only took RAH's seal of approval before others decided to buy this great film on Blu-ray?






Crawdaddy

I had never heard of The Professionals before, so I am interested