A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Lord of the Rings Trilogy - Extended Edition -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[montrealfilmguy]

Wow i'd love to see that clip.
Luke Skywalker-egg expert.
who knew ?

 

[newtonnjd]

Hi,
New member here, I've been catching up with this thread over the last few days, but was surprised the discussion seems to have come to a halt - perhaps a good thing for everyone's sanity!
Is there another thread on HTF where there is further discussion of this set?
If not I'd like to quickly chip in with my views - I'm just a movie fan whose first love is audio, but wants the visual side to be top notch too, and LOTR is my favourite film series. I'm in the UK, my set up is a 40" Panasonic plasma and Cambridge Audio 640BD player.
I've only skimmed through FOTR EE so far - the DVD has always been my audio test disc so I'm intimately familiar with certain passages. The audio on the BD is of course immense, my only complaint is that I wish I could dial down the LFE on a few scenes, mainly whenever Frodo is succumbing to the Ring, as it gets dangerously distorted (my speakers are good, but the bass is cranked too high here IMO).
As for the visuals and the new colour grading. I would divide my experience into 3 reactions:
1. This looks great, close to the familiar colour palette but much better detail - 80% of scenes watched
2. Wow - this scene/shot has a new level of beauty through a combination of detail and colour/contrast - 10%
3. Oh dear not so good - the green/cyan tint is too much - 10%
If I went down the glass half full road, I would say 90% improvement, some of which is breathtaking - I'm happy! But that 10%.. what a shame! Particularly bad for me are most scenes with Saruman, it looks like he accidentally died his hair green and has almost got it back to normal but not quite. In the "disguised as riders in black" exchange, I used to love the vibrant white Saruman against the black stone, but now there is noticeable green in that white (for me) - not happy.
I also have a problem with shadowed skin tones, particularly at night, with the green becoming too noticeable. One example is the night scene by the Anduin. I'm very distracted by the green skin tones on Frodo. But there were probably 6 or 7 other scenes where I noticed it too. The mountain / ring in snow sequence, despite the argument that darker is more foreboding, just does not look as pleasing to me now. I know it's possible to film in sunny conditions and darken it to seem overcast, but if that was the intention here I don't think it looks right.
So I do share some of the concerns of Mark Booth. Though I disagree with him on Moria being too dark, I think it's a huge improvement. I just wish they'd darken Shelob's Lair to the same level - but it sounds like ROTK has not been played with.
There have been several comments about the calibration of people's systems bothered by the green/cyan tint - while I accept that I may not have ideal calibration, I think what I'm seeing is valid, because I've never seen this problem or lack of consistency on any of my other discs.
Overall, I will still be able to immerse myself in the beauty of this version of FOTR, despite the hope that one day there'll be a version that is 100% spot on, not 90%.

 

[Merrick Gearing]

Its good to see that people have finally moved on from this discussion. The mods over at bluray.com finally cracked down on the thread and hardly anything gets posted anymore!

 

[cafink]

Ah, yes. I see we've moved on from the discussion of the movie's color timing to the discussion about the discussion of the movie's color timing. Seems like a lateral move to me.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by newtonnjd
my only complaint is that I wish I could dial down the LFE on a few scenes, mainly whenever Frodo is succumbing to the Ring, as it gets dangerously distorted (my speakers are good, but the bass is cranked too high here IMO).

What subwoofer do you have and do you have any bass management system such as a Velodyne SMS-1 ?

 

[newtonnjd]

What subwoofer do you have and do you have any bass management system such as a Velodyne SMS-1 ?

I don't have any bass management other than high and low cutoff dials on the sub (an EPOS ELS - a very musical sub, but does a decent job on movies too). The reason I have no BM is that I hook up the sub with speaker wire from the power amps that are outputting the Front L/R channels which have the bass mixed in - my players settings are Sub off and L/R speakers set to large. So the sub and the mains receive exactly the same signal. This might sound a bizarre setup, but the sub sounds so much sweeter using the high level inputs compared to low level. And 99.9% of the time watching movies it works fine. The sub itself doesn't struggle, it's the two main speakers, which are trying to output the whole dynamic range. And even then, it's only the scenes of the Black Rider sniffing for the Ring and Frodo in the Prancing Pony that cause an issue. Perhaps it isn't that the bass is stronger in those scenes than the rest of the movie, but that the main spneakers are most sensitive to the dominant bass frequency of these particular sound effects?The best solution to keep the high level inputs but gain some BM would be a 3rd power amp dedicated to the bass channel - but then the sub might lose the warmth of the tube pre-amp used for the mains.I'm guessing your system handles the "Ring rumbling" fine?

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by newtonnjd
I don't have any bass management other than high and low cutoff dials on the sub (an EPOS ELS - a very musical sub, but does a decent job on movies too). The reason I have no BM is that I hook up the sub with speaker wire from the power amps that are outputting the Front L/R channels which have the bass mixed in - my players settings are Sub off and L/R speakers set to large. So the sub and the mains receive exactly the same signal. This might sound a bizarre setup, but the sub sounds so much sweeter using the high level inputs compared to low level. And 99.9% of the time watching movies it works fine. The sub itself doesn't struggle, it's the two main speakers, which are trying to output the whole dynamic range. And even then, it's only the scenes of the Black Rider sniffing for the Ring and Frodo in the Prancing Pony that cause an issue. Perhaps it isn't that the bass is stronger in those scenes than the rest of the movie, but that the main spneakers are most sensitive to the dominant bass frequency of these particular sound effects?
The best solution to keep the high level inputs but gain some BM would be a 3rd power amp dedicated to the bass channel - but then the sub might lose the warmth of the tube pre-amp used for the mains.
I'm guessing your system handles the "Ring rumbling" fine?

I have a pretty good SVS sub, not one of the latest smaller designs, mine is the big box type, 2 12 inch drivers, i also use a Velodyne SMS-1 because i had room node issues, before i got the Velodyne i had a node causing issues at one frequency and boominess, now it sounds great, but having said that, the modern soundtracks can go very low and even my capable subwoofer has some issues with films like The Haunting where it does distort a little during some of the scenes particularly the opening moments, now maybe the subwoofer isn't having issues and its probably a room issue and needs some treatments rather than a subwoofer issue and maybe its the same for you.

I remember running the opening scenes from Stars Wars - Attack Of The Clones countless times and just adjusting things slightly until the flyby scene and explosion sounded great, my decibel meter said 109db for that scene, thats below reference but was loud for my room.

I can't remember how the Lord trilogy sounds, it was about three years ago i last watched on dvd ( extended edition ) i'm going to buy this boxset once the price drops a little.

I tend to run my speakers with a crossover at 90hz and they are set to small, like you i do think setting the front main speakers to large sounds a little more musical but the bass sounds much better when i set them to small, its a tradeoff i guess and i really use my system for movies only. ( well apart from a little Destinys Child or Nelly Furtado, Bootylicious has some great bass in it )

Talking about bass, i have long believed that with DVD that dts cooked things to give the illusion of better sound, pumping up the bass a little, now this shouldn't happen with lossless tracks but i would swear on my life that some film soundtracks appear to have a hot bass track by maybe upto 10db. I loved it and always liked dts because of this, strange as that may seem since we should be wanting a soundtrack that is more even, but sorry my ears liked the dts tracks and if its a modern digital mix then i love a really aggressive surround track too with the rears having lots of discrete effects rather than just being used for ambience, although if a film is old and has mono or 2.0 tracks then i prefer to listen that way and hate re-mixes which tend to sound very artificial and poor.

:EDIT:

I used to have a RELQ200E subwoofer before i bought an SVS, i think it was a good subwoofer but had major issues with very low bass at high volume levels, it was fine to about 30hz despite the technical specifications stating it could handle 20hz bass, i think maybe that is what you are experiencing, i have read the technical specifications of your subwoofer and feel this is what is happening, Many subwoofers can struggle to produce deep low bass at high volume, they can be fine at 80db but push them to 90db and higher and they fall apart into distortion, i think your subwoofer may fall into this class as did my old RELQ200E.

 

[Amillennialist]

Hi,
New member here, I've been catching up with this thread over the last few days, but was surprised the discussion seems to have come to a halt - perhaps a good thing for everyone's sanity!
Is there another thread on HTF where there is further discussion of this set?
If not I'd like to quickly chip in with my views - I'm just a movie fan whose first love is audio, but wants the visual side to be top notch too, and LOTR is my favourite film series. I'm in the UK, my set up is a 40" Panasonic plasma and Cambridge Audio 640BD player.
I've only skimmed through FOTR EE so far - the DVD has always been my audio test disc so I'm intimately familiar with certain passages. The audio on the BD is of course immense, my only complaint is that I wish I could dial down the LFE on a few scenes, mainly whenever Frodo is succumbing to the Ring, as it gets dangerously distorted (my speakers are good, but the bass is cranked too high here IMO).
As for the visuals and the new colour grading. I would divide my experience into 3 reactions:
1. This looks great, close to the familiar colour palette but much better detail - 80% of scenes watched
2. Wow - this scene/shot has a new level of beauty through a combination of detail and colour/contrast - 10%
3. Oh dear not so good - the green/cyan tint is too much - 10%
If I went down the glass half full road, I would say 90% improvement, some of which is breathtaking - I'm happy! But that 10%.. what a shame! Particularly bad for me are most scenes with Saruman, it looks like he accidentally died his hair green and has almost got it back to normal but not quite. In the "disguised as riders in black" exchange, I used to love the vibrant white Saruman against the black stone, but now there is noticeable green in that white (for me) - not happy.
I also have a problem with shadowed skin tones, particularly at night, with the green becoming too noticeable. One example is the night scene by the Anduin. I'm very distracted by the green skin tones on Frodo. But there were probably 6 or 7 other scenes where I noticed it too. The mountain / ring in snow sequence, despite the argument that darker is more foreboding, just does not look as pleasing to me now. I know it's possible to film in sunny conditions and darken it to seem overcast, but if that was the intention here I don't think it looks right.
So I do share some of the concerns of Mark Booth. Though I disagree with him on Moria being too dark, I think it's a huge improvement. I just wish they'd darken Shelob's Lair to the same level - but it sounds like ROTK has not been played with.
There have been several comments about the calibration of people's systems bothered by the green/cyan tint - while I accept that I may not have ideal calibration, I think what I'm seeing is valid, because I've never seen this problem or lack of consistency on any of my other discs.
Overall, I will still be able to immerse myself in the beauty of this version of FOTR, despite the hope that one day there'll be a version that is 100% spot on, not 90%.

Anyone else notice the brief anomalies in Frodo's face at Amon Sul and in the distance shot of Aragorn and Arwen on the bridge at night in Rivendell?

 

[montrealfilmguy]

I'm probably not in the best of moods today as i just left a similar post in the Mad mad world
thread, so i'm sorry for this small rant.
And i'm not contributing to anything here,now.Or am i ?
But the comments made by the user newtonnjd are ,i think really at the heart of the problem here.
He starts his post by saying :
New member here, I've been catching up with this thread over the last few days, but was
surprised the discussion seems to have come to a halt - perhaps a good thing for everyone's sanity!
Is there another thread on HTF where there is further discussion of this set?

What ?
Come again ?
I'm totally confused by this,because right after,he spends quite a few paragraphs dissecting
minute and microscopic details of singular shots here and there.
I try to like all people,i really do.
It's my nature and i think what makes me a better being and a better screenwriter also.
But please,oh please.For the love of all that is cinematically good.
When you're at 90 %,let go of the 10 % and enjoy the now.And the rest of the film,a film that
exists,has survived AND succeeded in an era where sucky sequels,5-year reboots and remakes
galore prevail.
See,with all these comments on green tinting,grading and whatnot,do any you folks truly and
honestly believe that the filmmakers of LOTR
would have given us a screwed up transfer since i'm quite positive this is undubitedly the flagship
of Jackson's career
(O.k.some people say it's still Dead alive,or Braindead,in some cases ).
Well,if that ever comes to be the case,and they come out with a remastered version when
The hobitt come out on BD,then you can all come to Times Square and throw eggs at me
for an entire day.And Andrew Lesnie can come to shoot it widescreen and post it on Youtube 2.0
And if he decides to add a green tint to it,well that can only mean one thing.
Green eggs and ham.
End of rant.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by montrealfilmguy
I'm probably not in the best of moods today as i just left a similar post in the Mad mad world
thread, so i'm sorry for this small rant.
And i'm not contributing to anything here,now.Or am i ?
But the comments made by the user newtonnjd are ,i think really at the heart of the problem here.
He starts his post by saying :
New member here, I've been catching up with this thread over the last few days, but was
surprised the discussion seems to have come to a halt - perhaps a good thing for everyone's sanity!
Is there another thread on HTF where there is further discussion of this set?

What ?
Come again ?
I'm totally confused by this,because right after,he spends quite a few paragraphs dissecting
minute and microscopic details of singular shots here and there.
I try to like all people,i really do.
It's my nature and i think what makes me a better being and a better screenwriter also.
But please,oh please.For the love of all that is cinematically good.
When you're at 90 %,let go of the 10 % and enjoy the now.And the rest of the film,a film that
exists,has survived AND succeeded in an era where sucky sequels,5-year reboots and remakes
galore prevail.
See,with all these comments on green tinting,grading and whatnot,do any you folks truly and
honestly believe that the filmmakers of LOTR
would have given us a screwed up transfer since i'm quite positive this is undubitedly the flagship
of Jackson's career
(O.k.some people say it's still Dead alive,or Braindead,in some cases ).
Well,if that ever comes to be the case,and they come out with a remastered version when
The hobitt come out on BD,then you can all come to Times Square and throw eggs at me
for an entire day.And Andrew Lesnie can come to shoot it widescreen and post it on Youtube 2.0
And if he decides to add a green tint to it,well that can only mean one thing.
Green eggs and ham.
End of rant.

I'll buy a 12 pack of eggs, i might miss you though and hit someone else and get jailed so i hope you can pop by the police station and get me out. )

This reminds me, didn't Last Of The Mohicans get a slightly green makeover last year, something happened, as i recall reading many disgruntled comments. ?

 

[Jay G.]

Unfortunately things have gone arse over tit this time. Some of the keener eyes have spotted the fact that the sides have been cropped on all the DVDs. They have been sharper than I have been, And they are right. And we are in the thick of sorting it out.

More details on the fiasco here:
http://www.smart.co.uk/dreams/tidecrop.htm
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/246991/tideland-terry-gilliam-s-latest-on-dvd-2-27

So, even with a director involved, there's no guarantee that the finished product is correct, especially if the director has made assumptions about others having done their jobs correctly.


Considering that people have given varyinig accounts of how noticeable the color shift is, depending on their personal setups and vision, it's possible that if the final Blu-ray discs themselves had been screened for Peter Jackson, the setup he screened it on may have kept him from noticing it.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by montrealfilmguy
I
See,with all these comments on green tinting,grading and whatnot,do any you folks truly and
honestly believe that the filmmakers of LOTR
would have given us a screwed up transfer since i'm quite positive this is undubitedly the flagship
of Jackson's career

Watch Heavenly Creatures, that might be considered Jackson's finest film, sure Lord Of The Rings is flashier but Heavenly Creatures is a very well told human story.

 

[montrealfilmguy]

Yes,i have seen it.
A very good film indeed.
But hardly what Peter Jackson will be remembered for.
I've even seen Meet the feebles.Sort of The muppet show on an acid trip.

 

[newtonnjd]

I'm not quite sure I see what is wrong with wanting to enjoy 100% of something rather than 90%, and stating that on a forum designed for discussing opinions on a product!
Unlike the theatrical version, the colour grading of the EE pulls me out of the film in certain scenes - why shouldn't I be able to discuss that?

 

[newtonnjd]

EDIT:
 
I used to have a RELQ200E subwoofer before i bought an SVS, i think it was a good subwoofer but had major issues with very low bass at high volume levels, it was fine to about 30hz despite the technical specifications stating it could handle 20hz bass, i think maybe that is what you are experiencing, i have read the technical specifications of your subwoofer and feel this is what is happening, Many subwoofers can struggle to produce deep low bass at high volume, they can be fine at 80db but push them to 90db and higher and they fall apart into distortion, i think your subwoofer may fall into this class as did my old RELQ200E.

I know my sub can't compete with the big boys at high volume, but at my viewing volume it isn't what's causing the distortion. It's the main speakers sort of rattling (they are panel speakers - Magnepan MG12). I would love to hear the Ring rumbling on someone else's system.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Originally Posted by newtonnjd
I know my sub can't compete with the big boys at high volume, but at my viewing volume it isn't what's causing the distortion. It's the main speakers sort of rattling (they are panel speakers - Magnepan MG12). I would love to hear the Ring rumbling on someone else's system.

If you can give me a timeframe i will put my dvd edition in, its not lossless but it will produce a rumble good enough to test this for you on my own system.

 

[Matthew Anderson]

I have viewed FOTR and part of TTT on the new bluray set and I am very pleased so far. I have had to turn down my SVS sub a bit because the bass is quite intense at times but everything sounds and looks fantastic to me-better than what I expected.

 

[newtonnjd]

If you can give me a timeframe i will put my dvd edition in, its not lossless but it will produce a rumble good enough to test this for you on my own system.

I had the same problem with the DVDs so that should be a good test, no rush though!

 

[Sumnernor]

I have a question about the subtitles in the 1st film theatrical. Are there subtitles on all extras (reg 1 or 2) which includes "Quest Fir the Ring"

 

[Amillennialist]

This reminds me, didn't Last Of The Mohicans get a slightly green makeover last year, something happened, as i recall reading many disgruntled comments. ?

Yes, an overall greenish, often darker, appearance, along with a really yellow scene (Duncan riding in to meet Cora).
It still looks good; I wish Mann would fix the flapping rock and other anachronisms.