A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Lion in Winter -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

RH - how is new stereo sound on this?

Seems to be multi-channel monaural.

 

[Kino Lorber Insider]

What a disappointment. No wonder TT passed on this title. Wish Criterion had it. They would do Mr. Harvey proud.

I take it that this is a different transfer than the 2016 U.K. blu. Is that, then, the best version to get?

The source master for our release is the 2016 Studio Canal 4K restoration, the same one as the UK release, which has received great reviews everywhere - look it up. And we're pretty sure the North American reviews will also be very positive and we're also sure that 95% of fans will be very happy with the transfer. The only difference between the UK and US one is the 5.1 audio... we did a new one.

TT never has access to this master and we're positive they would've loved to release it, the master they turned down was a very old MGM HD master. And we did not use this older master by mistake.

 

[Dave B Ferris]

As somebody who is not an industry-insider, it is hard for me to imagine that, apart from belonging to this forum, there is any other way I could be privy to this kind of dialog. Thanks to all for participating!

 

[J. Casey]

The source master for our release is the 2016 Studio Canal 4K restoration, the same one as the UK release, which has received great reviews everywhere - look it up. And we're pretty sure the North American reviews will also be very positive and we're also sure that 95% of fans will be very happy with the transfer. The only difference between the UK and US one is the 5.1 audio... we did a new one.

TT never has access to this master and we're positive they would've loved to release it, the master they turned down was a very old MGM HD master. And we did not use this older master by mistake.

Thanks so much for this info! I've had this pre-ordered since it was announced and look forward to it!

 

[Robert Harris]

The source master for our release is the 2016 Studio Canal 4K restoration, the same one as the UK release, which has received great reviews everywhere - look it up. And we're pretty sure the North American reviews will also be very positive and we're also sure that 95% of fans will be very happy with the transfer. The only difference between the UK and US one is the 5.1 audio... we did a new one.

TT never has access to this master and we're positive they would've loved to release it, the master they turned down was a very old MGM HD master. And we did not use this older master by mistake.

I believe everything being said.

The problems do not stem from KL. They go back to the “restoration” performed by Canal, which while it could be 4k, neither has 4k information, nor has the stability of a modern scan.

It is technologically impossible for Canal to have performed a modern scan on an OCN, and ended up with the image that I'm seeing.

If they're using anything other than the OCN, there is no reason to go 4k.

And I also agree that the majority of viewers will be happy.

 

[Paul Rossen]

The source master for our release is the 2016 Studio Canal 4K restoration, the same one as the UK release, which has received great reviews everywhere - look it up. And we're pretty sure the North American reviews will also be very positive and we're also sure that 95% of fans will be very happy with the transfer. The only difference between the UK and US one is the 5.1 audio... we did a new one.

TT never has access to this master and we're positive they would've loved to release it, the master they turned down was a very old MGM HD master. And we did not use this older master by mistake.

Thank you for the response. Will await reviews and word from Forum members before taking the plunge. Have another question. There being a new 5.1 stereo audio track ...is the slight sync problem with the original mono or the new stereo or both?

 

[Charles Smith]

This is a crushing disappointment. It's one of my all-time favorite films. Back in the time of its theatrical release, there was no home video, of course, but I bought the screenplay in paperback book form and the soundtrack album and would relive the movie at home in my room by reading and playing the score.

Same here. I must have gotten rid of the LP years ago, but...

 

[PMF]

Somewhere between Shakespeare and Mamet lay Mr. Goldman's perfect fusion of both the classical and the contemporary. Such a brilliant, crackling and highly accessible work.

 

[Matt Hough]

Same here. I must have gotten rid of the LP years ago, but...

View attachment 44435

Yep. Exactly what I had! That brings back SUCH a flood of memories.

 

[Mark-P]

The source master for our release is the 2016 Studio Canal 4K restoration, the same one as the UK release, which has received great reviews everywhere - look it up. And we're pretty sure the North American reviews will also be very positive and we're also sure that 95% of fans will be very happy with the transfer. The only difference between the UK and US one is the 5.1 audio... we did a new one.

TT never has access to this master and we're positive they would've loved to release it, the master they turned down was a very old MGM HD master. And we did not use this older master by mistake.

I was on the fence as to which Blu-ray to buy. The new 5.1 soundtrack has sold me on the Kino disc. Thanks!

 

[Paul Penna]

So given RH's "Seems to be multi-channel monaural" and Kino's "US one is the 5.1 audio... we did a new one" what do we have and what exactly did RH hear? Five channels all with the same audio plus an LHE?

 

[john a hunter]

I have the Brit BD.
The only reason I presume where this new one is superior is that hopefully the erratic sound levels have been tamed.

 

[Robert Harris]

So given RH's "Seems to be multi-channel monaural" and Kino's "US one is the 5.1 audio... we did a new one" what do we have and what exactly did RH hear? Five channels all with the same audio plus an LHE?

I’m hearing no channel separation, although the track is 5.1

 

[Tony Bensley]

I’m hearing no channel separation, although the track is 5.1

Perhaps, it could be one of those requires electronic testing to prove whether the 5.1 audio track is true stereo and/or true surround sound scenarios?

CHEERS!

 

[Patrick McCart]

While disappointing that StudioCanal's master isn't what it should have been, I'll still be picking it up to replace the DVD.

How exactly are the rights split between StudioCanal and MGM on the Embassy titles? Perhaps only MGM has access to the camera negative and StudioCanal's main element is a dupe? It's not the first time MGM and SC masters differed, as in the case with Zulu and The Graduate.

 

[DP 70]

The UK 70mm prints were even Mono

 

[Robert Harris]

The UK 70mm prints were even Mono

There were a number of 70mm prints produced monaural.

As I recall, Nicholas & Alexandra was one.

 

[Charles Smith]

I felt some real disappointment on reading RAH’s words the other day, but as the conversation transpired I’ve turned around to really looking forward to having my copy. For one thing, I haven’t watched the film in years (after bingeing on it when released) and I never had it on any home video format, so from that standpoint it’s kind of a no-brainer. I’m relieved to hear that the audio is especially satisfying. This film is just too brilliant to deprive oneself of (of which to deprive oneself?).

I’ve also got people around me — some of whom know how wonderful it is but haven’t seen it in years, and others who I know will absolutely thrill to it for the first time — but they aren’t film buyers or collectors, so it’s time to play host and improve a few lives.

In a wonderful coincidence, a local stage production with an excellent director and killer cast opens next week just a few miles from me. I’ve never seen it on stage, so how perfect is that as a warmup and companion piece? Another no-brainer. Good times ahead.

 

[albert_m2]

The film is much better than I remember. It's possible I was too young to appreciate it then. At the time, it seemed a bit overly "au courant" to present Henry II & his brood as a fairly modern dysfunctional family a la WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOOLF, within the context of a meticulously researched and crafted period film. Watching the film a second time back in 1968; beyond Katherine Hepburn's remarkable performance, it just didn't hold together for me. The film seemed overly coy and calculating, almost winking at the audience. Seeing it again today, it's simply a masterpiece.

When I first saw this film, maybe a decade ago, I was constantly reminded of Virginia Woolf. Both have the hateful bickering couples. It's quite exhausting in a way to watch, as both films have a few characters who are almost always at each other's throats.

 

[Dick]

But the dialog's the thing.

I think the comment above that the script here was like a cross between Shakespeare and Mamet is pretty astute. For the sake of his audiences, James Goldman found a middle ground that made viewer-friendly modern vernacular ("What family doesn't have it's ups and downs?") sound like it could conceivably have been spoken centuries earlier. This is largely successful due to the outstanding performances. There is great wit and good humor throughout the film, which lightens an otherwise (and necessarily) oppressive atmosphere. How much pleasure might one have derived from living in a damp, cold, under-decorated castle?

The film still carries a lot of weight, and is incredibly memorable. John Barry's operatic score is sublime...I think I wore out three or four copies of the Columbia soundtrack album (so nice to have it on CD now). THE LION IN WINTER is probably my favorite release of 1968, and there were a lot of good ones.