1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Lion in Winter -- in Blu-ray

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Robert Harris, Feb 26, 2018.

  1. Message #1 of 135 Feb 26, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 28, 2018
    Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 1999
    Messages:
    11,628
    Likes Received:
    12,105
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Robert Harris
    "It's the way I register despair..."

    Tony Harvey's quite extraordinary 1968 The Lion in Winter, is one of those films that I would take with me, if i knew I was to lost on a desert island.

    Albeit with electricity and some playback gear.

    I love the film, and Tony became a friend.

    After owning a 16mm print, followed by a lovely 35, I was ready for the film to make its way to Blu-ray, and I was certain the it would arrive in style.

    I was wrong.

    Kino Lorber's new Blu-ray, with a master courtesy of MGM is one of those head-shakers.

    All of the original elements survive, but what we've been allowed (via no fault of KL's) is an (apparently) older transfer derived from either a poorly produced IP, or dupe neg -- or both -- that rather than being rock solid like any decent modern image harvest, continually worms its way around the screen.

    And it's enough to give one a headache.

    Color is fine.

    Grain is alright in some instances, and disappears in others, with an overall slightly soft image, probably courtesy of double dupes.

    Audio if fine, but always just slightly enough out of sync to be annoying, if that sort of thing annoys you.

    It's distressing, as TLiW is a superb production, that deserves far better, and will probably not be re-visited.

    Mr. Harvey, by way of trade, began in the industry as a child actor, then made the move, as an adult to editing --
    I'm All Right Jack, The Angry Silence, Lolita, The L-Shaped Room, Dr. Strangelove, The Whisperers --before moving to directing.

    And direct, he did, no more-so than in Lion, for which everything just seems to click, with performances that are unforgettable.

    So what we have, is a new Blu-ray, that's up to ancient standards, for an extraordinary film.

    Normally, I'd not recommend, but this one of those cases in which content must come out above technology.

    Studiocanal should be ashamed of themselves.


    Image - 3.5

    Audio - 4

    Pass / Fail - Pass

    Upgrade from DVD - Yes

    Very Highly Recommended (caveats noted)

    RAH

     
  2. Jimbo64

    Jimbo64 Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    495
    Trophy Points:
    610
    Location:
    Wolcott CT
    Real Name:
    Jim Potter
    Well that’s a damn shame, I was looking forward to it. Why couldn’t Criterion get their hands on it?
     
    telzall and Peter Keller like this.
  3. J. Casey

    J. Casey Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    308
    Likes Received:
    383
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Location:
    USA
    Real Name:
    Jason
    I take it that this is a different transfer than the 2016 U.K. blu. Is that, then, the best version to get?
     
  4. Jimbo64

    Jimbo64 Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2014
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    495
    Trophy Points:
    610
    Location:
    Wolcott CT
    Real Name:
    Jim Potter
    The 2016 UK blu is Studiocanal
     
  5. Todd Erwin

    Todd Erwin Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2008
    Messages:
    4,268
    Likes Received:
    1,000
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Location:
    Hawthorne, NV
    Real Name:
    Todd Erwin
    But isn't that typical of this rights holder? Look at Ran, The Ladykillers, and most recently, Terminator 2.
     
    Jimbo64 likes this.
  6. Paul Rossen

    Paul Rossen Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    316
    Trophy Points:
    610
    What a disappointment. No wonder TT passed on this title. Wish Criterion had it. They would do Mr. Harvey proud.
     
    battlebeast and Jimbo64 like this.
  7. Message #7 of 135 Feb 26, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
    trajan007

    trajan007 Second Unit

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2016
    Messages:
    368
    Likes Received:
    257
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Real Name:
    Larry C Bender
    pre order canceled.
     
  8. PMF

    PMF Producer

    Joined:
    May 6, 2015
    Messages:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    3,213
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Philip
    I've often wondered why such failures of transfers and/or restorations do not get re-visited. "The Lion in Winter" is an important film that commands a great deal of reverence and respect on every front. Meanwhile, I'm glad to learn that Kino is not at fault; but, at the same time, I disappointingly can not justify the purchase.
     
    telzall, Peter Keller and SteveJKo like this.
  9. Paul Rossen

    Paul Rossen Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    Messages:
    873
    Likes Received:
    316
    Trophy Points:
    610
    If Kino is not at fault who is? It's their name on the label. Supposedly this came from a Studio Canal restoration of a year or so ago. Assume that Kino paid good money to utilize this restored version. Shouldn't they have insisted on a better transfer? Don't they have standards?

    To have anything resembling sync problems in this movie where speech is so important is a disaster.
     
  10. Matt Hough

    Matt Hough Executive Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    18,981
    Likes Received:
    7,867
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Real Name:
    Matt Hough
    This is a crushing disappointment. It's one of my all-time favorite films. Back in the time of its theatrical release, there was no home video, of course, but I bought the screenplay in paperback book form and the soundtrack album and would relive the movie at home in my room by reading and playing the score.
     
    Peter Keller, PMF and Dave B Ferris like this.
  11. MarkA

    MarkA Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 1999
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    110
     
  12. MarkA

    MarkA Second Unit

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 1999
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    64
    Trophy Points:
    110
    I am almost ready to cancel my order as I have the DVD, but you noted that it is an upgrade from the DVD. Just wanted to know, in what respects? Thanks so much Robert!
     
  13. Message #13 of 135 Feb 26, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2018
    PMF

    PMF Producer

    Joined:
    May 6, 2015
    Messages:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    3,213
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Philip
    And, might I add, that we can all have a better shot at reliving the color and clarity through the miracles of memory and the mind's eye over that of what Studio Canal has put out. At least with the Amazon - Arrow debacles over the sales of "The Apartment", there was still an ultimately perfect transfer waiting for us all.
     
    battlebeast and Matt Hough like this.
  14. Mark-P

    Mark-P Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,225
    Likes Received:
    2,206
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Location:
    Camas, WA
    Real Name:
    Mark Probst
    I held off buying the UK disc waiting for this one and now I don't know which one to buy! I don't demand perfection, but which is the lesser of two bads?
     
    Peter Keller and PMF like this.
  15. Konstantinos

    Konstantinos Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,862
    Likes Received:
    988
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Real Name:
    Konstantinos
    I bet they are exactly the same.
    I've seen screenshots of the UK one and it doesn't look good either.
     
  16. Mark-P

    Mark-P Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,225
    Likes Received:
    2,206
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Location:
    Camas, WA
    Real Name:
    Mark Probst
    But what about sound? The main complaint with the UK disc was that the sound was very thin with hardly any bass, and now RAH mentions sync issues with the Kino.
     
  17. PMF

    PMF Producer

    Joined:
    May 6, 2015
    Messages:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    3,213
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Philip
    So, why is Kino waving the "4K restoration" banner at us?
    I was under the impression that the term of 4K was a lock-down on achieving the ultimate in picture and sound.
     
    trajan007 likes this.
  18. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 1999
    Messages:
    11,628
    Likes Received:
    12,105
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Robert Harris
    Please keep in mind. I'm very picky.

    Also some minor white cut through scratches on occasion. Nothing terrible.

    And as noted, sync is a minor issue, which may go unnoticed.

    One would presume that this is the earlier transfer from UK.
     
    PMF likes this.
  19. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 1999
    Messages:
    11,628
    Likes Received:
    12,105
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Robert Harris
    I was unaware that this is purportedly a 4k rest.

    Ummm, no.

    Although anyone can scan anything in 4k, or above.
     
    PMF likes this.
  20. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    38,362
    Likes Received:
    13,595
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    I'll buy this when Kino has one of their sales in which I can purchase it for $12 or less.
     
    telzall, PMF, lark144 and 1 other person like this.

Share This Page