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A Few Words About A few words about...™ The Fury -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

haineshisway

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Jari K said:
"Gorgeous Samsung tv". Wow, with that you must really know how The Fury should look like.
Let's put it this way and very simply: A lot more than you :) You see, I've seen The Fury in 35mm many times. I saw it less than two years ago now that I check that year's calendar - in 35mm. Samsung, in case you've been living in a cave somewhere, makes great TVs - beautifully reviewed all over the Internet, with many, many satisfied customers, me being one of them. Oh, and since I didn't mention - viewed on two Oppo 103s - be sure to deride those players, too.

But for you and other armchair experts who are having real difficulties understanding the simplest of facts - and we know you love facts: I am not a reviewer, for this or any other site. This has been pointed out to you twice above by smart people and it is ignored - big surprise. Here's what I'm doing - I'm offering my opinion. I've also stated that numerous times. You can either continually try to bait me, which is EXACTLY what you are doing and I'm not the only person this is done to on this and other boards - it's typical Internet bushwa by armchair experts who, prior to Blu-ray and/or DVD and reading stuff on the Internet had exactly what experience with film? Please answer that, because I'm sure everyone would like to know your backgrounds. Just because you read somewhere that a certain set-up is tops, and just because you may invest in that set-up does not mean you know one or even two whits about ANYTHING concerning what a film should look like.

The set I view on is calibrated and if discs look correct on it, what more can you ask? By correct, I simply mean that the transfer looks as it should in terms of contrast, color, and everything else. And since I've seen plenty of discs with transfers that mirror what 35mm prints I've owned and seen recently look like, you know what - it's not brain surgery to tell. So, the bottom line again for those with especially hard heads: I'm just a guy with an opinion and just like you all I am stating it. Now, you can disagree with that opinion (which the various people doing this in this thread can't because - wait for it - they haven't done a comparison of the two discs as I have, nor have they even seen both discs - that is patently clear here), or agree with it or read it and ponder. You can bait and talk about equipment all you like but in the end I'm still offering my opinion and you can be interested or not. I personally do not care one way or another whether you are interested or not, nor do I care if you take exception to it. You state opinions, too, don't you? And people can believe them or not. Funny how all that works. As to equipment and the easy disparaging thereof, sorry, you lose instantly because it wouldn't matter WHAT I was watching on, you'd find some way to say it wasn't good enough. Like we all went to the movies in our past years and sat and thought, "Gee, I wonder what brand of projector they're using and what make bulb and are the foot lamberts precisely up to snuff and how old is that lens they're using." Because all those things matter in theatrical projection, but, interestingly, we weren't armchair experts and we went to do something radical - watch the movie :)

There are some people here who understand that I've been around film for forty-three years now in terms of being a professional. I was, at one point in time, one of the biggest film collectors in the world with a collection that was kind of legendary in its day. I have made films, I've been in editing rooms, I've been in transfer rooms, I've watched it all from start to finish. So, when people read the opinions I offer, they know that background and some give credence to the opinion being stated. Some don't. Who cares? Why certain people are so bothered or frightened by an opinion is anyone's guess, but at least one person in this thread who is on other boards does this sort of thing all the time - it's a bore, but it's typical.

You can, of course, please point me in the direction of anything in my post here that says I'm stating a fact, a hard fact, about anything or that my opinion is the only one that matters or that I'm right and everyone else is wrong. Do it for me, won't you? Oh, I'll save you the trouble - you won't be able to. As I've already pointed out ad nauseum and which is also continually ignored because to acknowledge it would render these baiting posts for what they truly are - my post is filled with "for me" "to my eyes" and on and on. What does that tell you? It tells you that I am posting MY opinion. Being the only one in this thread who's actually seen both discs. That's really kind of the end of the story, but for certain types it can never be the end because the chance to belittle, disparage and vainly attempt to discredit is too much Internet fun. I hate to tell you that although it's never done here, Mr. Harris has received the same sort of thing on several other boards. It rolls off him just like it rolls off me. You all discredit nothing, you belittle to no avail, because smart people understand what is being offered here and take it for whatever it's worth to them.

My opinion of these two transfers would not change one iota no matter what system I was watching on. For you beloved caps people - it is easy to see the orangey hues of the Twilight Time disc vs. the bluer look of the Arrow. Why, how is that possible? Are you viewing them on a calibrated monitor under perfect circumstances? No. And yet, those differences are very clear no matter how you're looking at it. Do you think the darkness of the car scene would be different if I were viewing it elsewhere? No. It would still be too dark and an obvious attempt to cover up the overt pushed film grain that you see on the Twilight Time disc, which is how that scene has always looked. But it wouldn't matter what I said - there would always be one or two people to go down the baiting road, here and elsewhere. For those who put no stock in the opinion offered, based on what system I'm viewing on or based on the fact that you believe I know nothing, the answer is simple - put me on ignore and that will be that. Others can either believe or not. The one thing you will never achieve is me not offering an opinion when I feel like offering an opinion. And all I can tell you is I have heard from several people who have viewed both discs who tend to agree with me on every point I've made. That, too, doesn't really mean anything, but there you are.

Oh, and just in case you missed it: I am not a reviewer, not for this site or any other. I have never been a reviewer and I never will be a reviewer. Nor do I have the pretense of many on various boards to call what I write a "review." Never have, never will. To those involved, you may now go edit your posts accordingly :)
 

haineshisway

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JoshZ said:
Boys, please zip your pants back up. You're not impressing anyone.

Haineshisway has viewed both discs on his own screen, and he is presumably very familiar with how movies look on that screen. He has provided his honest impressions on the differences he saw between the two discs. When you've viewed the discs yourselves, you may choose to disagree with his conclusions, but attempts to discredit his opinion because you think his equipment wasn't expensive enough, or wasn't a brand you like, or whatever other demeaning criteria you whip out, just make you look like bullies.
Thank you for stating what is blatantly obvious - much appreciated.
 

ROclockCK

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haineshisway said:
Yes, they used the Twilight Time iso track. One wonders if they had permission to do so.
Hopefully this isn't another can of worms question in a thread full of them Bruce, but have you had a chance to listen to or at least sample Arrow's IST? Is it, in fact, the same as Twilight Time's, reproduced with the same fidelity?
 

haineshisway

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ROclockCK said:
Hopefully this isn't another can of worms question in a thread full of them Bruce, but have you had a chance to listen to or at least sample Arrow's IST? Is it, in fact, the same as Twilight Time's, reproduced with the same fidelity?
I have not listened yet, but will. I don't think there is any doubt it's the Twilight Time track - there's no way that it can't be - it was prepared and paid for by Twilight Time, so even if someone gave Arrow permission (and that's something no one knows at this point other than Twilight Time certainly didn't give them permission), they still had to use the Twilight Time track.
 

ROclockCK

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According to Neil, Arrow's promo blurb claimed that their IST was performed by the London Symphony Orchestra, which it couldn't have been if it was the actual original score...an LA recording.

So I'm still curious whether Arrow might have somehow substituted all or part of the LSO re-recording for the original LA-based IST. Farfetched, I know...as Neil also pointed out, those tracks simply wouldn't match up with the film like the original LA recording did on TT's edition. However, just as hard to imagine, why would Arrow have been allowed to use the TT-produced track, at least during that label's exclusive 3-year licensing window? Or are IST rights not legally the same as video rights?

Mainly curious at this point...as in "What did Arrow actually release as an IST for The Fury?"
 

Sgt Pepper

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You gave your opinion I asked basically how you formed that opinion and pointed out some flaws in it, I gave mine and as I have repeatedly said I am no expert . When simply asked what equipment you were viewing on, which seems to me to be a harmless enough question and I thought again was relevant you did not like it..........but as you seem to take great umbrage at anyone else's opinion but your own I will bow out of this debate.
 

haineshisway

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tele1962 said:
You gave your opinion I asked basically how you formed that opinion and pointed out some flaws in it, I gave mine and as I have repeatedly said I am no expert . When simply asked what equipment you were viewing on, which seems to me to be a harmless enough question and I thought again was relevant you did not like it..........but as you seem to take great umbrage at anyone else's opinion but your own I will bow out of this debate.
If you were offering an opinion I must have missed it. Asking someone about what equipment they're using is not an opinion - and it's done all the time in vain attempts to disparage. That has been my reading of that question for quite some time, and I'm not the only one reading that question in that way. Asking someone how they can remember the way a film looked is not an opinion. Furthermore, how can you point out flaws in an opinion when you haven't seen one of the two discs in question or, as far as I know, ANY of the discs in question? I take umbrage at anyone who responds to a post trying to deflect the points of the post by going around in circles, and all based on the fact that no one can actually debate at this point because no one has actually seen the two transfers together, at least not on this board. If you want to offer a contrasting opinion to my opinion I would read it, perhaps debate it, and I nor anyone else would have a problem with that. But if you go back and look at your posts you will see clearly that that is not what you were doing - not at any time.
 

Sgt Pepper

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So by asking someone what equipment they are viewing on is an attempt to disparage, I would consider it vitally important. If you are on about me asking Robert Harris how he views his movies etc being " not the only one reading that question that way " well I can assure him and you that is not the case..........as I have said it is extremely important to know exactly how movies are being assessed and knowing that gives a better understanding of the processes involved in reaching an opinion.
Surely that is not hard to understand and as far as I know neither Robert or yourself had been asked that before on these forums and I am willing to bet quite a few members are happy to know this information.
Now as this seems to be an emotive issue for you and I can tell your problem is with me again I will bow out and leave others to maybe agree or disagree with your opinion.
 

Paul Rossen

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tele1962 said:
So by asking someone what equipment they are viewing on is an attempt to disparage, I would consider it vitally important. If you are on about me asking Robert Harris how he views his movies etc being " not the only one reading that question that way " well I can assure him and you that is not the case..........as I have said it is extremely important to know exactly how movies are being assessed and knowing that gives a better understanding of the processes involved in reaching an opinion.
Surely that is not hard to understand and as far as I know neither Robert or yourself had been asked that before on these forums and I am willing to bet quite a few members are happy to know this information.
Now as this seems to be an emotive issue for you and I can tell your problem is with me again I will bow out and leave others to maybe agree or disagree with your opinion.
I find it extremely interesting and vitally important in learning what equipment reviewers or industry 'experts' utilize to comment on their findings. Learning that RAH has B&W speakers including the 800 series and his history with Avery Fisher was illuminating. Most reviewers will state the equipment being used. Websites such as Audiogon.com among others show all different types of systems from beginner to 'all out assault' systems. AVS Forum also caters to all sorts of systems, again professional to novice. It's what makes this 'hobby'/ business so fascinating in that most of us are trying within certain budgetary constraints to duplicate the theatrical experience one remembers(whether from a year old movie or one 50 years old).
 

FoxyMulder

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Paul Rossen said:
I find it extremely interesting and vitally important in learning what equipment reviewers or industry 'experts' utilize to comment on their findings. Learning that RAH has B&W speakers including the 800 series and his history with Avery Fisher was illuminating. Most reviewers will state the equipment being used. Websites such as Audiogon.com among others show all different types of systems from beginner to 'all out assault' systems. AVS Forum also caters to all sorts of systems, again professional to novice. It's what makes this 'hobby'/ business so fascinating in that most of us are trying within certain budgetary constraints to duplicate the theatrical experience one remembers(whether from a year old movie or one 50 years old).
It's how the equipment is setup that is most important, although i often don't see eye to eye with Bruce i don't discount his opinion even though i can't always agree with it, he might think bad of me but i believe i gave him a like twice, once for his Dracula opinion which i agreed with, i also own a Samsung plasma and think they make great televisions, i believe tele also owns a Samsung and also owns The Fury on blu ray.

I still think the Twilight Time edition of The Fury looks sharpened and i can tell that from the screencaps but that's just my opinion, it means nothing to those who distrust screencaps or think little of me, that's fine, let's move on.
 

Paul Rossen

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FoxyMulder said:
It's how the equipment is setup that is most important, although i often don't see eye to eye with Bruce i don't discount his opinion even though i can't always agree with it, he might think bad of me but i believe i gave him a like twice, once for his Dracula opinion which i agreed with, i also own a Samsung plasma and think they make great televisions, i believe tele also owns a Samsung and also owns The Fury on blu ray.

I still think the Twilight Time edition of The Fury looks sharpened and i can tell that from the screencaps but that's just my opinion, it means nothing to those who distrust screencaps or think little of me, that's fine, let's move on.
Of course it is also how a system is set up, but knowing the equipment in use gives the reader a perspective that he/she may never have. In Bruce's case he can be watching from a 1947 Magnavox and I'd value his findings as he is one of the best cd soundtrack producers around.

And I do find it fascinating all this discussion on a film(THE FURY) which I did see in the theaters as a preview and have no interest in seeing again. I thought it quite terrible at the time and have no interest in purchasing either the sold out TT or the new Arrow version. That said the music score by John Williams is quite striking.

My less than 2 cents. To each their own...
 

haineshisway

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FoxyMulder said:
It's how the equipment is setup that is most important, although i often don't see eye to eye with Bruce i don't discount his opinion even though i can't always agree with it, he might think bad of me but i believe i gave him a like twice, once for his Dracula opinion which i agreed with, i also own a Samsung plasma and think they make great televisions, i believe tele also owns a Samsung and also owns The Fury on blu ray.

I still think the Twilight Time edition of The Fury looks sharpened and i can tell that from the screencaps but that's just my opinion, it means nothing to those who distrust screencaps or think little of me, that's fine, let's move on.
Samsungs are great - period. And it's fine not to see eye to eye and I enjoy fun debate and I don't know you to think little of you, even in this forum. I have no doubt that if we were to actually meet you'd be a very nice fellow and I think you'd find me to be the same :)
 

Jari K

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Bruce, please don't embarrass yourself anymore. You don't know nothing about my A/V equipments nor my "history" with films and DVD/BDs. By all means enjoy your perfect tv and your perfect reviews, but don't assume that you know who I am.
 

dpippel

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I wasn't referring to the discussion about the film, rather the childish pissing contest into which this thread has descended. Perhaps the combatants should take their petty grievances to PM and let the thread get BACK on the rails.
 

Sgt Pepper

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dpippel said:
I wasn't referring to the discussion about the film, rather the childish pissing contest into which this thread has descended. Perhaps the combatants should take their petty grievances to PM and let the thread get BACK on the rails.
Pissing contest and no grievances from me just trying to establish some facts. :)
 

Sgt Pepper

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dpippel said:
Thanks for illustrating my point.
So in trying to get to the facts not insulting anyone is boorish and a pissing competition?

PS
Can you please point to my posts where this is the case?
 

haineshisway

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Jari K said:
Bruce, please don't embarrass yourself anymore. You don't know nothing about my A/V equipments nor my "history" with films and DVD/BDs. By all means enjoy your perfect tv and your perfect reviews, but don't assume that you know who I am.
I don't recall saying I know who you are. I don't believe I'm the one embarrassing myself and while I may not know "nothing" (sic), if you have "history" with films and DVDs/Blu-ray why don't you stand up proudly and tell us all about it? Here's my bottom line: I know what I like, I know what looks good, and I know what films look like. Your turn. I also don't believe I called my Samsung "perfect" and I know I have said repeatedly that I am not a "reviewer" so your use of that word is clearly in error. All I've done in this thread is offer my opinion of two transfers. Like it, lump it, and here's a really good suggestion: Move on.
 

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