the quick tutorial:Originally Posted by Sumnernor
Excuse me , there as some terms that I don't know. Someone please describe what a lossless track is and likewise a lossy track is.
Agreed. Some people are better able to "hear" things; other people are better able to "see" things. By this I mean they're attuned to one or the other, whether it's a physical issue (poor hearing, poor eyesight), a brain thing (the brain is better able to process audio vs. video), a training thing (they've learned how to distinguish one better at the expense of the other), or a conscious decision.Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
I'm afraid I think your argument is full of holes. Audio is equally as important to film as video. And, because you feel that audio "tricks" can be played with sfx is no reason to base a judgment that audio is less important. i could just as easily say many people's visual senses are tricked by the many uses of CGI in current films or matte paintings in older films and draw an erroneous conclusion that integrity to the original video source is not important.
David:Originally Posted by David Weicker
I've been following this thread, and I really wish it had stayed on the topic of the quality of The African Queen, instead of devolving into a diatribe about lossless vs lossy audio.
I think before people had commented about the audio quality, they should have actually watched the film. It seems the only one who actually had was RAH, who said the audio was fine. Too many times, people are so caught up in reading the specs, they forget about the actual content.
...
People are saying its unacceptable because of the back of the box, not their ears - because you haven't heard it yet.
Well the quality issues include the sound too not just the image.Originally Posted by David Weicker
I've been following this thread, and I really wish it had stayed on the topic of the quality of The African Queen, instead of devolving into a diatribe about lossless vs lossy audio.
I think before people had commented about the audio quality, they should have actually watched the film. It seems the only one who actually had was RAH, who said the audio was fine. Too many times, people are so caught up in reading the specs, they forget about the actual content.
Maybe they should have provided both audios, because I'd be willing to bet that if we blindfolded the various participants here, they couldn't have told the difference without their systems telling them what they were listening to. (I'm not saying this is true in all cases, but for a mono picture from the 50s I'd give odds).
People are saying its unacceptable because of the back of the box, not their ears - because you haven't heard it yet.
David
Oops. it seems that Robert Crawford has also seen it, and he also said the audio was not an issue.
Well said Mike, did I see the you were one of the winners of this movie?Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
David:
Sorry to hear you feel you've been subjected to a diatribe. I'd characterize the discussion in this thread as a constructive and informative debate on an issue appropriate for the forum.
I, for one, feel I've learned a few things about this subject. There have been quite a few people in-the-know who have weighed in with their opinions on the subject of lossy soundtracks on Blu-ray releases.
And I don't recall anyone here (in all 48 posts so far) commenting on the audio quality of this release who hadn't yet watched the disc. As you already noted, the only ones who have seen it (among those posting here)--and commented on the SQ--are RAH & Crawdaddy.
Probably as many people commented that they think a lossless soundtrack should have been included on the release as commented that they think a lossless soundtrack could have hurt this release. Many of these people hadn't watched the release yet---but none of them specifically critiqued the SQ of TAQ as they had not yet heard it.
So where you see a diatribe, I see a healthy give-and-take on an issue appropriate to the discussion of The African Queen. I'm sure there will be more people commenting on the quality of the release soon as it trickles into more HTF households.
Originally Posted by Scott Calvert
You don't want to hear audio transparent to the master because it's old and will sound worse? Really? How is compressing the track going to change anything, except to make it sound even shittier? The studio master is the final product and that is what should be on the bluray. If there were flaws in the soundtrack they should be fixed before or during the master mixdown. Assuming there are truly any flaws that are bad enough to need serious attention.
I'm not saying lossy compression is bad. If done correctly it can truly be transparent. But the thing is, why even bother? Is it easier to click the "lossy compression" button in the mastering workstation? Bluray has plenty of space. Use a lossless track.
I must admit I am surprised by Mr. Harris and others who think that a less-than-excellent audio presentation is the best way to go in some instances. I cannot imagine that argument ever being put into play on the video side of the discussion.Originally Posted by Robert Harris
There was also a comment earlier (possibly Mr. Boulet) in the thread that made note of the fact that any problems inherent in the tracks should and can be dealt with by audio engineers working in the digital realm, who could fix them. This is nice concept as long as there is something to fix. Can they help? Certainly, but even the best of digital still cannot make the proverbial silk purse from a sow's ear. Possibly burlap.
...
Can a track be helped along? Certainly. But I contend that there are many tracks which, already under the digital gaze of a modern transfer, may sound far better when all of their warts are not aired publicly via the wonders of uncompressed digital audio. Was this a potential problem with TAQ? I have no idea.
Originally Posted by Mike Frezon
I must admit I am surprised by Mr. Harris and others who think that a less-than-excellent audio presentation is the best way to go in some instances. I cannot imagine that argument ever being put into play on the video side of the discussion.
I'm sorry, Robert. The last thing I want to do is misrepresent anyone's position.Originally Posted by Robert Harris
You're misquoting. Any audio presentation should be as high quality as technically possible. What I'm saying is that in some cases our current technologies can expose too much if extant tracks are problematic from the beginning.