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A Few Words About A few words about...™ Sweet Charity - in Blu-ray

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Robert Harris, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. Stephen PI

    Stephen PI Supporting Actor

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    From my experience as a projectionist back in the '60's I never found that the curtains blocked out the projected image until the 'dowser' on the projector was closed which cuts off the light source.
    When I projected "LAWRENCE OF ARABIA" in 1965/66, during the overture, the other projectionist on my shift opened the dowser and the image of the blank film showed on the curtains. So I closed the dowser and he frowned at me. I told him I knew the overture music well enough to know when to open the dowser and the curtains on the BBFC card, which was at the head on all British prints.
     
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  2. John Skoda

    John Skoda Stunt Coordinator

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    Trivia--For GYPSY they must have filmed the entire Overture as on the LP, because if you concentrate on the orchestra in the credits sequence there's a fade forward where the cut comes. It's hard to notice because you're watching the credits and not the background orchestra.
     
  3. Message #103 of 285 Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
    Charles Smith

    Charles Smith Extremely Talented Member

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    Speaking of LAWRENCE, an image I've kept plastered to the inside of my skull for 30 years is the sight of that gorgeous Columbia logo hitting the curtains as they opened at the Century Plaza. Those curtains had a nice long travel, coinciding with the duration of the logo and that great chord in the orchestra. It was magnificent.
     
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  4. TJPC

    TJPC Producer

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    I have been in theatres where the words “Overture” and the word “intermission” were projected on the close curtains. As each ended, the curtains slowly opened.
     
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  5. trajan007

    trajan007 Second Unit

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    I have never seen the words " overture" projected on the screen from a film based projection system. If it was there it had to be from a hard drive system made for home viewing.
     
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  6. TJPC

    TJPC Producer

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    This was seen years before digital projection. In Fantasia I have seen the orchestra assemble and tune up as projected on closed curtains.
     
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  7. RichMurphy

    RichMurphy Second Unit

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    Perhaps the theatre decided to project a slide during the overture, to avoid complaints from the audience that they forgot to open the curtains. One theatre in Helena Montana went one step further in catering to its audience's inadequacies - they turned on an electric sign placed behind the screen announcing that the concession stand was about to close. Mind you, they did this DURING THE MOVIE!!!!!
     
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  8. MartinP.

    MartinP. Supporting Actor

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    I just read all of the posts here. Seems to me there's a lot of missing the forest for the trees talk. So many complaints about some Entr'acte and Exit Music missing, music that was, mind you, not listened to by a majority of theatre goers because they were leaving, or getting back to their seats after the intermission, etc. And yet, not one complaint with overture titles that were added for home video releases. If you're going to be an absolutist, then shouldn't you object to those things, too, no? Kino has put out this fabulous looking Blu-Ray according to the review and I daresay are not raking in the money for doing so and with all the criticism here I daresay why would they want to keep pursuing these ventures with all the thanks they get.

    I saw Sweet Charity a few years ago at a summer long retrospective of Universal films at the Billy WIlder Theatre in Westwood. I've seen the movie on home media many times, but this was the first time in a theatre. Frankly, I don't even recall now if there was an overture, intermission, entr'acte or exit music. Kudos to all of you who remember such things from fifty years ago.

    Kino: Thank you for this new Blu Ray release. I'm getting it and I'm sure it'll be worth every penny.
     
  9. Peter Apruzzese

    Peter Apruzzese Producer

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    They were probably using their slide projector if you saw 'intermission" and 'overture" on the curtains. In all my years of handling film, I've never seen a print with an overture where it was anything other than black leader (other than West Side Story and My Fair Lady, I'm sure there are others, but those two are with graphics/images and not text - and neither said 'overture').

    Of course, you would see "intermission" as the last image fades out or coming in on its own after the last image of the first part, You would never see "intermission" after the break.. During the roadshow era, the intermission card was usually timed for the average travel length of the curtain to close in a large venue (I knew projectionists who would adjust the drum on their curtain motor to ensure the curtain speed would find it closing completely before the "intermission" card faded out). I never came across an "Entr'Acte".printed into a film print either, always black leader. Same with exit music.
     
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  10. Message #110 of 285 Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019
    PMF

    PMF Producer

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    To highlight, some of us here are miffed about the marketing and usage of the term "Roadshow"; as this was used by Universal in their pre-publicity and pre-order junkets. "Roadshow" by definition; especially in a musical; specifically includes an Overture, Intermission, Entr'acte and Exit Music. This is part of the "Roadshow" experience and format. True, some aren't interested in sitting through these interludes and want to skip right to the film. And that is their option and advantage with a tap of their chapter search remote to skip on through such segments that do not hold their interests. But, as far as options go, those who do enjoy the musical scoring and arrangements; and also prefer the contextual aspects of a "Roadshow" from beginning to end; are now without this option.

    As it was, Universal did not have to use the term "Roadshow". But they did and that's on them. Feasibly, allowances could be made in deference to the oversight that took place within their labs (or any other variation of such themes); but only if they postpone the cited street date and release of "Sweet Charity" and their discs, recall the stock and fix the errors of omissions. The other solution to this false advertising would be to lower their MSRP asking price of $40 and; with due diligence; replace the slips cases and existing text that denotes their product as being a "Roadshow"; as it is not; for this "Sweet Charity" is actually the "General Release". As for the existing 4K scan, the exhaustive efforts put forth by many and its bravura end-result reviews, we are more than excited and grateful; but not about the false advertising. And for that, we have nothing to apologize for.
     
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  11. David Weicker

    David Weicker Producer

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    No wonder physical discs are dying out.

    “We demand that you take it back until you give us those 25 seconds of music that aren’t really part of the film”.
     
  12. Message #112 of 285 Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2019
    PMF

    PMF Producer

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    Actually, its about seven minutes of music.
    And its also about accuracy in advertising;
    which, from their end, also plays a part in the health of physical media.

    But, like I said, if they can't fix it then just adjust the price accordingly;
    replace all slipcases with any text of false specs;
    and drop all marketing references that uses the term of "Roadshow".

    Meanwhile, and for the record, I fully intend to purchase and support the work that was performed (thus far).
     
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  13. Charles Smith

    Charles Smith Extremely Talented Member

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    I understand what you mean by this, and that's fine.

    But yes, it IS part of the film as originally released in its ROADSHOW run, and as advertised by the studio for this Blu-ray release.
     
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  14. PMF

    PMF Producer

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    What Charles Smith said. As he wrote it better and more succinctly. And with that, I rest my case.:)
     
  15. roxy1927

    roxy1927 Stunt Coordinator

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    This discussion about the My Fair Lady overture is a bit odd . The entire overture from the stage production is utilized however the credits are shown starting about half way through it. So whoever did the credits realized they did not have enough to fill out the entire overture and it being so overwhelmingly internationally famous knew they had to include the whole thing. So they timed it beautifully to start them with the soaring 'and oh that towering feeling.'
    So the overture begins without credits for a few minutes with the Beaton photos but then continues on with them. I don't know why you're lumping it with WSS which is a completely different thing and that film ENDS with the entire credit sequence. Completely different from MFL and just about every other film made.
     
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  16. roxy1927

    roxy1927 Stunt Coordinator

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    Of course it could have been Beaton or Lerner or Previn or Cukor who came up with the idea. Anyway it was a terrific one along with the choreographed Covent Garden early morning sequence which never fails to amaze me.

    Sorry to hear about the missing music from SC. I'm with those who consider it a blunder. I'm not surprised at the pups at Universal making such a mistake but you would think the people at Kino would know better
     
  17. MartinP.

    MartinP. Supporting Actor

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    I understand part of the roadshow experience was paying more...so there's that. ;)

    You can purchase it from Kino-Lorber right now for $23.97, but I suppose you mean you want the MSRP lowered so you could get it for like $17 or something? A roadshow release also had programs, too, but I guess that is okay? Or not? And since those overture title cards, for example, weren't in the original road show showings...they should or should not be on a Blu Ray release? I might sound like I'm being a wiseguy, but I really am interested and want to know the depths of the accuracy warranted for future reference.
     
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  18. Mark Mayes

    Mark Mayes Stunt Coordinator

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    I would only say that this is a welcome release, whether it sticks to the definition of "roadshow" or not. And I also would hate these criticisms to stop companies from bringing us these releases at all. I forked over plenty for the French release and will happily get this one without demanding a lower price over this kind of semantics. I also get how this is important to maintain what many consider the integrity of releases. I suppose it has to do with picking battles.
    I have understood that sound elements were lost for many films at Universal (including "Millie"). Maybe this was all they had that they felt usable. I know, I know...then don't torture people with hope by using the word "roadshow"...
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Universal_Studios_fire
     
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  19. JohnMor

    JohnMor Producer
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    Yes, why would a fan of a musical want seven minutes of music that was specifically composed, transcribed, scored and played by the orchestra to be included like it was in the movie theater upon its release? And was included on earlier home video editions. It’s really nonsensical, isn’t it? :rolleyes:
     
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  20. Ethan Riley

    Ethan Riley Producer

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    I definitely hope they offer a replacement disc in the future. I don't know if Kino's been made aware of this.
     
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