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A Few Words About A few words about...™ Sweet Charity - in Blu-ray

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by Robert Harris, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. roxy1927

    roxy1927 Stunt Coordinator

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    vincent parisi
    If only there had been a few major critics in '69 who lauded the film like this as it deserved. It was sadly at the time a very fashionable film to trash.
     
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  2. haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    Okay, finally we can hear about the French vs. the Kino. The French loses - while it looks very good, it is clearly not a new transfer - there's gate weave in the opening credits, and the grain is clunky, especially on the opticals, of which there are many. You don't notice this UNTIL you compare it to the Kino - which is clearly a new 4K transfer (NOT restoration) - grain looks like it should (LIGHT), sharper image, and everything looking a movie.

    Sound is another story. It's fine when you boost it about 10db - I have my volume set the same for every movie - occasionally I have to adjust up or down a db or 2, but this one's mastered hugely low - baffling really. Once you turn the sound up, it's fine and pretty much similar to the French, which doesn't need to be turned up.

    Another maddening thing, a packaging thing I will NEVER EVER understand... You open the case - there's a booklet on the left and a blu-ray on the right. Naturally, the assumption would be that that's the roadshow and what you want to watch. It's not - it's the "alternate" version sans overture - yes, it's stated on the disc but no one is going to look at the disc. In fact, you don't even notice that there's a disc under the booklet until you actually remove the booklet. Kino is not the only guilty party here - but it's just dumb, IMO - minor, yes, but irritating, yes.

    Nitpicks aside, I can't imagine anyone not being happy with the quality of this - and yes, it is a major screw-up not to have the Intermission and exit music - words have meanings and ROADSHOW means the ENTIRE ROADSHOW experience start to finish. I surmise Kino doesn't know the film or what the Roadshow was and so just took what Universal gave them and didn't know enough to ask for those musical items.
     
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  3. ahollis

    ahollis Lead Actor
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    Thanks Bruce. That’s just my thoughts on it also.
     
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  4. roxy1927

    roxy1927 Stunt Coordinator

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    What exactly do you mean by alternate version sans overture? do you mean that it's the entire roadshow (according to Kino) movie in stereo in a 4k transfer without the overture but with the alternate ending?
     
  5. ahollis

    ahollis Lead Actor
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    It’s the movie without overture, intermission and exit music. It’s the general release that 80% of the theatres in the US played.
     
  6. JohnMor

    JohnMor Producer
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    Yes, the version with the alternate ending does not include the Overture.
     
  7. haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    The first general release version - there was another cut-down (I believe it ran 121-minutes) version, which was the first way I actually saw the film - horrible cuts.
     
  8. Will Krupp

    Will Krupp Cinematographer

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    If I'm not misreading it, Allen, isn't the version on the second blu-ray the one with the alternate ending?
     
  9. Message #229 of 283 Aug 21, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
    PMF

    PMF Producer

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    Hopefully Universal has been reading our posts and won't repeat this jarringly same problem of omissions with "Thoroughly Modern Millie"; as Andre Previn's Oscar winning scoring within the Intermission, Entr'acte and Exit Music portions should not suffer from the same indignities as Ralph Burns had with "Sweet Charity".
     
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  10. roxy1927

    roxy1927 Stunt Coordinator

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    okay so I'm assuming that this general release version does not include those cuts that I remember from when I first saw it in the 70s. I knew I was seeing a cut version because I had listened to the lp which I bought as a cutout and as I was watching the film I was stunned that it was missing chunks of the musical numbers.
     
  11. roxy1927

    roxy1927 Stunt Coordinator

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    Although Previn did not win an Oscar for Millie Elmer Bernstein strangely enough did.

    I wonder if TCM will include the intermission and exit music for Charity.
     
  12. ahollis

    ahollis Lead Actor
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    You might be right. I was under the assumption that the second one was a general release version.
     
  13. Message #233 of 283 Aug 21, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2019
    PMF

    PMF Producer

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    Having now seen the Kino BD, I was very much surprised to see that the "Intermission" card was ported over from the DVD; as this was created specifically for the home edition.
    One would think that if Universal were of the mind to cut the music out that there would be no need to show the "Intermission" card at all; as it is redundant to show this at all, for the elevator scene is inclusive of this point with the "To Be Continued..." logo already built right into the original film. Do note that I am not an insider; just a viewer of BDs; but I am surmising that this omission of music was more within the hands of Universal and that Kino Lorber is exempt. After all, had Kino received the Entr'acte music in a transfer given to them from Universal, it wouldn't make any sense for them to make such a cut from their end. My summation, unless we hear differently, is that this oversight or decision had occurred at Universal. Nonetheless, for the 4K work that was performed on the actual film, "Sweet Charity" is more than worth the upgrade.
     
  14. TJPC

    TJPC Producer

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    He is absolutely right. I guess for some reason I got this set from A.ca early. It definitely has the alternate ending on disc 2.
     
  15. cda1143

    cda1143 Agent

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    I would love to know why.

    Thanks so much!

    Chris
     
  16. haineshisway

    haineshisway Producer

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    Disc two is the same save for the overture being gone and the happy ending being used. There seems to be confusion here because someone said "general release version" - I believe the ORIGINAL general release version was the road show with the overture, entr'acte and play out music removed and with no to be continued. I may be wrong about this, but that's what I remember being told. The 121-minute version (or thereabouts) was, I believe, first done for airline prints, one of which I had in 16mm. I really have no idea if that version was shown in theaters or not.
     
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  17. Thomas T

    Thomas T Producer

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    Alas, 1969 was a year of transition in Hollywood. It was the year of Easy Rider, Midnight Cowboy and They Shoot Horses Don't They?. Big musical roadshows like Sweet Charity, Hello Dolly, Goodbye Mr. Chips and Paint Your Wagon (all 1969 releases) were considered old fashioned and dismissed as such by the majority of critics. Curiously, I suspect posterity will be kinder to Hello Dolly and Sweet Charity (in fact, it already has) because in 2019, films like Easy Rider and Midnight Cowboy play out today as "of their time" period pieces, time capsules of the era which are interesting as archival documents of America but not much else while Charity and Dolly seem like timeless entertainments. I tried showing Easy Rider to my nephew ..... and he was bored stiff. "Hippies" were my generation and they just seemed like losers to him! :lol:
     
  18. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
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    The changeover to Kodak 5250, from 5248.
     
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  19. GlennF

    GlennF Second Unit
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    The 121 minute version was shown theatrically. I saw the movie as a roadshow in Toronto. It didn't do very well so they moved it to a smaller theatre and at that time the intermission, etc. got cut. (My brother went to see it on my recommendation.) The film was then re-released a few months later. I went to see it again and big chunks of it were chopped out - the 121 minute version. I was gobsmacked!
     
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  20. Ethan Riley

    Ethan Riley Producer

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    Did it ever play on primetime network television in the 70s? I don't recall...I also don't recall ever really seeing it in syndication in the Big Cable 80s when everything was showing on television. I don't recall seeing it all until AMC started playing it.
     

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