A Few Words About A few words about...™ Sweet Charity - in Blu-ray (2 Viewers)

[Robert Harris]

Is this the 149 minute version or the 154?

Also who did the musical adaption for the film and the arrangements of all the original music in the movie of which there is a fair amount?

And if this is being released in stereo how could it not be the roadshow print with ALL the music? General release films in that era were released in mono. And of all films I doubt Charity would be the exception. It was practically dumped into general release as cheaply as possible. Unless you are saying the original elements were cut down for the general release and the rest tossed.

Optical sound track negs do not simply appear.

 

[roxy1927]

I'm not sure what you are saying. 'Optical sound track negs do not simply appear.' What does this mean exactly? I'm referring to roadshow prints. They would be on the print itself no?

 

[Mikey1969]

Another terrible commentary is the one for VERTIGO by William Friedkin. His connection to Hitchcock and the film is tenuous at best, and he appears to know very little. He also sounds bored or like he just rolled out of bed.
I'm holding on to my old DVD (the one where they made poor Jimmy Stewart look remarkably like Bela Lugosi playing Dracula on the cover) for the far superior commentary featuring Robert Harris and James Katz, among others.

I dislike Richard Schickel's commentaries the most, especially for films where he is just "winging it" (i.e. talking off the top of his head without research notes). He makes frequent mistakes and is obviously just coasting on his reputation. (BTW, I think his "The Men Who Made the Movies" series was brilliant.)

But I also second Dr. Drew Casper as one commentator I especially dread to see listed as a participant.

 

[haineshisway]

The orchestrations are by Ralph Burns - arrangements were, I believe, Jack Lee and probably Cy.

 

[haineshisway]

My loathing of Dr. Drew Casper knew no limits. They're all stupid poseurs who made a nice little side living doing these inane commentaries or participating as talking heads.

 

[haineshisway]

And yes, the use of the word "restoration" for every damn 2K or 4K transfer is a joke. Doing a transfer in 2K or 4K is - wait for it - doing a transfer, not RESTORING a film. I doubt Sweet Charity needed restoring, if that word actually has any meaning left.

 

[Charles Smith]

Nick and Julie loved this movie and their commentary would have been lovely. I would like to have done one, frankly.

I would hope for you and Julie Kirgo finding one to do together someday.
Of course this film would have been the ideal one. But there will be others.

 

[Robert Harris]

I'm not sure what you are saying. 'Optical sound track negs do not simply appear.' What does this mean exactly? I'm referring to roadshow prints. They would be on the print itself no?

What I'm saying is that before one has an optical track neg, one must have mag elements. For SC, those elements would presumably be stereo, a simple cut x-copy of the original tracks.

We also do not know if there were not mag-opt prints of the short version. It may have been an exception, along with others.

As to the stereo overture, intermission, entr'acte, ends and play-outs, they were generally not a part of the main body of the film.

Especially in 70mm, they were printed as separate units. Same on most 35 productions. Black leader would be striped, sounded, and ready to cut together with the body of the film.

So...

If one is trying to reproduce the roadshow format, one would have to find all of the pieces, and then deal with them.

 

[Robert Harris]

And yes, the use of the word "restoration" for every damn 2K or 4K transfer is a joke. Doing a transfer in 2K or 4K is - wait for it - doing a transfer, not RESTORING a film. I doubt Sweet Charity needed restoring, if that word actually has any meaning left.

The word has zero meaning left. It has been raped, plundered and used for odd and sundry purposes.

It's meaningless, unless uttered by the correct person.

 

[roxy1927]

Ok I assumed if a road show print existed the overture would be on the first reel before the images started and the exit music on the final reel after the images ended the projectionist or whomever opening and closing the curtains at the proper time.

 

[Robert Harris]

Ok I assumed if a road show print existed the overture would be on the first reel before the images started and the exit music on the final reel after the images ended the projectionist or whomever opening and closing the curtains at the proper time.

You're correct. It is. But those prints are cut together and conformed print by print.

As an example, the first reel of Lawrence was made from multiple rolls of positive film.

Academy Leader - removed from the head of Reel 1A...

and cut to the head of the Overture / and or overture with prologue.

The Overture is then cut to the studio logo.

The Studio logo is cut to the head of the main title sequence.

The main title sequence is cut to reel 1A.

Reel 1A is cut to the head of Reel 1B

And that's how a projection print is born.

 

[roxy1927]

What is your opinion on possibly why the entr'acte and exit music were left out when they were available in other formats? By the way the film always looked especially good to me from when I first saw it in the early 70's on a double bill with Ulzana's Raid.

 

[mBen989]

What is your opinion on possibly why the entr'acte and exit music were left out when they were available in other formats? By the way the film always looked especially good to me from when I first saw it in the early 70's on a double bill with Ulzana's Raid.

My thoughts?

It was either on accident or on purpose.

 

[MatthewA]

The ownership of Universal has changed hands several times since 1990. Its parent company MCA went to Matsushita (owners of JVC trying to match Sony's then-recent Columbia acquisition), Seagrams', Barry Diller's acquisition of the TV studio, Vivendi, GE (making it sibling of NBC), and then its most recent sale to Comcast. The laserdisc that had the exit music was during the MCA Home Video era, IIRC, so it was before all that. Maybe they just plain forgot and whoever remembered had gotten downsized or retired over the years.

 

[haineshisway]

And Kino is still at it - Picture Mommy Dead - NEW 4K RESTORATION! No, it isn't. It's a new 4K TRANSFER and from WHAT? I can do a 4K transfer of some 8mm film I found in my garage. So bored of the hyperbole and never forgetting the "4K" RESTORATION of Irma La Douce, the poster child of a transfer with someone at the helm who has no idea what the color of the film should actually look like. Nope.

 

[roxy1927]

Song of the South is a wonderful film. I saw it a few times in the 70's when there was already controversy about it. It really is a scandal the way the Disney Co has treated it. You know that though if they do release it there will have to be a very annoying condescending disclaimer before the film begins something along the lines of 'We apologize profusely if this film offends anyone but people back then well they didn't know any better and think how much better we are.'

 

[Robert Crawford]

Let's get back on topic and leave Song of the South to the appropriate thread. Thank you.

 

[JohnMor]

I would think this is more on Universal as opposed to Kino, whether it be a deliberate choice or an accident. It seems to me Kino can only work with whatever elements Universal provides to them, yes? And this version mirrors exactly what Universal put on its own French blu-ray release.

 

[haineshisway]

I'm beginning to think that Universal did this transfer FOR the French Blu-ray and handed it to Kino.

 

[Ethan Riley]

I'm beginning to think that Universal did this transfer FOR the French Blu-ray and handed it to Kino.

Was this music missing on the French Blu?