AnthonyClarke

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Deepest condolences Anthony. I pesosnally find the death of our four legged companions the worst part of old age, Theirs and ours.
Thanks David old pal. Here's a pic of Calypso on guard after Robyn had a heart attack about four years ago. So lovely. I tried posting this as a 'private' message so it wouldn't be out of place in the thread .. but couldn't find how to do it. Moderators, sorry about that.
 

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lark144

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Thanks David old pal. Here's a pic of Calypso on guard after Robyn had a heart attack about four years ago. So lovely. I tried posting this as a 'private' message so it wouldn't be out of place in the thread .. but couldn't find how to do it. Moderators, sorry about that.
A very beautiful and loving doggie. My condolences, Anthony.
 
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Robert Harris

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Thanks David old pal. Here's a pic of Calypso on guard after Robyn had a heart attack about four years ago. So lovely. I tried posting this as a 'private' message so it wouldn't be out of place in the thread .. but couldn't find how to do it. Moderators, sorry about that.
My thread, my cup, my house. No problems here.
 

Reed Grele

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I've been putting off scheduling the calibration for my Sony 885ES because of the Covid, but after reading this thread, I'll really have to look into getting it accomplished sooner than later. Although to my untrained eye, everything looks great, I'm sure that I'm missing something that only a trained eye and expensive analyzing equipment can fix.

The feature that I like most about this beast of a unit is that when a scene fades to black, the laser shuts off and in my light controlled room you get BLACK! I may have the rest of the settings somewhat askew, but having a totally black fade, rather than a fade to a dark gray, really gives it that OLED punch!

HDR? While I'm more than pleased with what I'm seeing with UHD discs so encoded, I'm sure that having some tweaks done will allow things to pop even more than they do now. And I've heard rumors that the next Sony firmware update may address some of the HDR compatibility issues.
 

sbjork

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At leas according to What Hi*Fi?, it looks like the new firmware may not be so much an improvement of the tone mapping algorithms as it is increasing the data set that the projector uses by allowing the user to input screen size, gain, and presumably throw distance. It also increases the number of steps for manual adjustment from three to five (six total if you include Auto.)

That still will hardly make HDR perfectly set-and-forget, but it should help to solve the single biggest variable that tone mapping usually never accounts for: installation differences. Once that firmware drops (and other people have been guinea pigs testing it first) I will be very interested to try the few UHDs that I own which bring even JVCs tone mapping to its knees -- Unforgiven being one of them.

 

titch

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At leas according to What Hi*Fi?, it looks like the new firmware may not be so much an improvement of the tone mapping algorithms as it is increasing the data set that the projector uses by allowing the user to input screen size, gain, and presumably throw distance. It also increases the number of steps for manual adjustment from three to five (six total if you include Auto.)

That still will hardly make HDR perfectly set-and-forget, but it should help to solve the single biggest variable that tone mapping usually never accounts for: installation differences. Once that firmware drops (and other people have been guinea pigs testing it first) I will be very interested to try the few UHDs that I own which bring even JVCs tone mapping to its knees -- Unforgiven being one of them.

I'd love to hear if anybody with a high-end 4K projector can get a decent picture from Unforgiven.
 

titch

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Time code please
Well, for one thing, the whole picture on the 4K disc is so so dark, I can barely make out any shadow detail throughout the whole film. The colour grading is also very different from the remastered blu-ray. Now, I'm very much aware that I have a $4000, first generation, two-and a half year old 4K DLP projector hooked up to my Oppo 203. This projector hasn't got a chance to resolve HDR. But I'm curious to hear if you get a fabulous picture from the 4K UHD of Unforgiven on your JVC NX9, and what you think when you compare it to the blu-ray. Because if that projector aces the contrast and low-light issues that I have, then I'll have to consider selling one of my kidneys to purchase one.

I've taken some snaps from the beginning. I know this is hopelessly amateurish, but it gives a vague representation of what I'm seeing at home. The screenshots from the 4K disk are marked 4K and the ones from the blu-ray marked 2K. I took them from 9.08, 10.03 and 23.22.
 

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Robert Harris

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Well, for one thing, the whole picture on the 4K disc is so so dark, I can barely make out any shadow detail throughout the whole film. The colour grading is also very different from the remastered blu-ray. Now, I'm very much aware that I have a $4000, first generation, two-and a half year old 4K DCP projector hooked up to my Oppo 203. This projector hasn't got a chance to resolve HDR. But I'm curious to hear if you get a fabulous picture from the 4K UHD of Unforgiven on your JVC NX9, and what you think when you compare it to the blu-ray. Because if that projector aces the contrast and low-light issues that I have, then I'll have to consider selling one of my kidneys to purchase one.

I've taken some snaps from the beginning. I know this is hopelessly amateurish, but it gives a vague representation of what I'm seeing at home. The screenshots from the 4K disk are marked 4K and the ones from the blu-ray marked 2K. I took them from 9.08, 10.03 and 23.22.
While I'm seeing a slightly improved image, it's nothing that most viewers would notice.

IMHO, the problem is in the application of HDR to the master, and not your projector.

A modern 4k re-master would be recommended, as this was Very early, as in 2016.
 
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david hare

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FWIW I also have a two year old DLP Pj (Optoma UHD65) which I’m now feeding with the Panny 820. I completely agree with titch about the dark/shadow problem. For the PJ I need to push the HDR on the Panny to lighten the image. I have much newer 75inch Panny screen (LED, HX940 series) which has fantastic HDR and DV delivery and the disc seems much more viewable on that monitor. I think mr H is right about the disc and the HDR pass.
 

Robert Harris

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FWIW I also have a two year old DLP Pj (Optoma UHD65) which I’m now feeding with the Panny 820. I completely agree with titch about the dark/shadow problem. For the PJ I need to push the HDR on the Panny to lighten the image. I have much newer 75inch Panny screen (LED, HX940 series) which has fantastic HDR and DV delivery and the disc seems much more viewable on that monitor. I think mr H is right about the disc and the HDR pass.
Many of the early discs were problematic, especially in projection. Consumers are always forced to play catch-up. A bit akin to getting a new phone every six months.
 

ManW_TheUncool

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Haven’t seen the Unforgiven 4K disc, but I’ve found the Sony X700’s HDR->SDR conversion to do pretty well for the bunch of 4K discs I’ve tried after some basic calibration whether fed to my old sub-$1K BenQ 1080p FP or my just-newly-acquired Epson 5050UB so far.

Of course, that’s using in-player HDR->SDR conversion, not relying on the FP to handle HDR — for some reason, the Cable Matters branded 4K HDMI (matrixed) switcher I bought (for temp use until I’m ready to upgrade my prepro) seems to force my playback devices (both my Roku and my Sony X700) into HDR->SDR conversion, so I’ve just left it that way for now (after a brief test that HDR works ok via direct HDMI connection).

_Man_
 

OliverK

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Well, for one thing, the whole picture on the 4K disc is so so dark, I can barely make out any shadow detail throughout the whole film. The colour grading is also very different from the remastered blu-ray. Now, I'm very much aware that I have a $4000, first generation, two-and a half year old 4K DLP projector hooked up to my Oppo 203. This projector hasn't got a chance to resolve HDR. But I'm curious to hear if you get a fabulous picture from the 4K UHD of Unforgiven on your JVC NX9, and what you think when you compare it to the blu-ray. Because if that projector aces the contrast and low-light issues that I have, then I'll have to consider selling one of my kidneys to purchase one.

I've taken some snaps from the beginning. I know this is hopelessly amateurish, but it gives a vague representation of what I'm seeing at home. The screenshots from the 4K disk are marked 4K and the ones from the blu-ray marked 2K. I took them from 9.08, 10.03 and 23.22.
An N5 will give you more shadow detail than that. Checked it on the NX9 and shadow detail in the first two pics with The Schofield Kid looks good and a lot better than your pictures. Best to go to a dealer or fellow HT enthusiast with the disc and check it out for yourself.

The NX9 is nice but it has the same HDR processing as the N5 so don't feel like you have to get the NX9 for that.
Both are very good projectors and while the NX9 gives you improvements in certain areas the N5 is obviously the value for money champion in the N-series.
 

Robert Harris

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An N5 will give you more shadow detail than that. Checked it on the NX9 and shadow detail in the first two pics with The Schofield Kid looks good and a lot better than your pictures. Best to go to a dealer or fellow HT enthusiast with the disc and check it out for yourself.

The NX9 is nice but it has the same HDR processing as the N5 so don't feel like you have to get the NX9 for that.
Both are very good projectors and while the NX9 gives you improvements in certain areas the N5 is obviously the value for money champion in the N-series.
Major useable difference between 5 & 9 is the glass, which aside from a more highly resolved image, allows a bit more illumination.

That noted, Unforgiven did not look proper on the 9.
 

RichMurphy

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"Yes, I am filming VERTIGO in VistaVision to get the best image quality available in 1958, but I can't wait until they invent VHS home video so people can see the image quality I REALLY want." - Alfred Hitchcock, never.
 
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TravisR

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I have no doubt that it's different but different doesn't mean that the VHS is correct. What evidence is there that the VHS is how Hitchcock wanted it to look? RAH can speak to it (if he wants to even engage in this nonsense before it gets deleted by the moderators) but I'm assuming that the restoration team looked at prints and did research to get the look that they did.

Also, attacking a restorationist online won't make you feel any better.
 
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titch

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We don't want trolls on this forum.
 
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OliverK

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Major useable difference between 5 & 9 is the glass, which aside from a more highly resolved image, allows a bit more illumination.

That noted, Unforgiven did not look proper on the 9.
I was actually quite impressed with the shadow detail on display and found that the slightly darker look worked quite well and it seemed more like I remembered it from first seeing Unforgiven theatrically. That was with about 105 nits peak white for the HDR preset.
 

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