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A Few Words About A few words about...™ Peyton Place -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

Thomas T

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@Thomas T,

You must be living someplace where the light of day is very cold indeed. :) I really love "80 Days" and have often defended its many awards (not just Oscars BTW).

I don't dislike Around The World In 80 Days but I stand by my statement that it is far from the best film of 1956. The cameos are fun and Victor Young's score is a treat but it's rather bloated and a little Cantinflas goes a long way and I won't even go into the casting of red haired freckle faced Shirley MacLaine as a Hindu widow (she needs more than dark Egyptian make up to make her convincing). And if you can make a case for 80 Days as superior cinema to other 1956 films as Ford's The Searchers, Siegel's Invasion Of The Body Snatchers, Sirk's Written On The Wind, Kazan's Baby Doll, Hitchcock's Man Who Knew Too Much or even Forbidden Planet, The King And I, The Girl Can't Help It, and The Court Jester. I'm willing to hear it. :)

That being said, if 80 Days ever makes an appearance on blu ray, I'd definitely pick it up.
 
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Thomas T

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@Thomas T,

Guess Who's Coming to Dinner was embarrassing when it was released, let alone today.

Well, while I wouldn't go that far, even in 1967, it played like a big screen sitcom (all that was missing was the laugh track) and while well intentioned, about as subtle as a sledge hammer (typical of Kramer). And coming after such grittier fare on race as Dutchman and In The Heat Of The Night it does come across as I said as quaint.
 

Joe Caps

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According to Fox sound technician Doug Williams, when Murray Spivack finiehed the mix on The Robe it was a three channel stereo mix. When played for Darryl Zanuck, Zanuck said, "Where's the surround track?"
Spivack then said, "What's a surround track"?
Separate surrounds were not recorded, but lifted from the front.
Doug then mentioned that no Fox film had separate recorded surrounds until South Pacific in 1958.
I remember goint to the Egyptian theater for a special showing of The Egyptian.
Indeed, the first scene when the chorus sings How beautiful Art Thou, the surrounds kicked on until there was some dialogue Over the chorus and the surrounds quickly shot off, the turned on once the dialogue had stopped,
However, I've found that no separate surrounds was not completely true as I founda few Fox films with music separate on the surrounds, starting in 1955 with Love is a Many splendored thing, and found thas also true in 1956 with Anastasia, and 1957 with Peyton Place.
 
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Stephen PI

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According to Fox sound technician Doug Williams, when Murray Spivack finiehed the mix on The Robe it was a three channel stereo mix. When played for Darryl Zanuck, Zanuck said, "Where's the surround track?"
Spivack then said, "What's a surround track"?
Separate surrounds were not recorded, but lifted from the front.
Doug then mentioned that no Fox film had separate recorded surrounds until South Pacific in 1958.
I remember goint to the Egyptian theater for a special showing of The Egyptian.
Indeed, the first scene when the chorus sings How beautiful Art Thou, the surrounds kicked on until there was some dialogue Over the chorus and the surrounds quickly shot off, the turned on once the dialogue had stopped,
However, I've found that no separate surrounds was not completely true as I founda few Fox films with music separate on the surrounds, starting in 1955 with Love is a Many splendored thing, and found thas also true in 1956 with Anastasia, and 1957 with Peyton Place.
That's very interesting. In your last sentence, I am assuming that you are hearing the theatrical surround pre any possible update for home video where it has occurred that information has been added, which should be easy for you to find out.
On "EL CID" the original surround track contained mostly musical fanfares, but for the home video, sound effects were added. Unless you were present one would assume that it was this way in the original mix.
A question you may be able to answer. Was it just Vinton Vernon and Doug Williams that were scoring mixers in the fifties? Do you know of a third?
 

Richard Gallagher

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Well, while I wouldn't go that far, even in 1967, it played like a big screen sitcom (all that was missing was the laugh track) and while well intentioned, about as subtle as a sledge hammer (typical of Kramer). And coming after such grittier fare on race as Dutchman and In The Heat Of The Night it does come across as I said as quaint.

Quaint? Only if you overlook the fact that interracial marriage was still illegal in 16 states when Guess Who's Coming to Dinner? was made.
 

Robert Crawford

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Quaint? Only if you overlook the fact that interracial marriage was still illegal in 16 states when Guess Who's Coming to Dinner? was made.
This ground-breaking film opened the door and it should be recognize for that, instead of branded for being too tame or timid with the subject matter.
 

Thomas T

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This ground-breaking film opened the door and it should be recognize for that, instead of branded for being too tame or timid with the subject matter.

Sorry, Mr. Crawford but I'm not of the school that gives bad movies a pass because their heart is in the right place. GWCTD? is the kind of movie that made white liberal audiences feel good about themselves (I don't think I've ever met an African American who thought very much of the movie). It's a fairy tale! Who wouldn't want Sidney Poitier as a son in law, he's a doctor, he's educated, he's handsome, he has a prestigious reputation. Would the liberal white family have been so accepting of him if he were a plumber? I think not.

Ground breaking? 3 years earlier there was a film called One Potato Two Potato which won Barbara Barrie the best actress award at the Cannes Film festival. It too dealt with an interracial marriage but it wasn't sugar coated like GWCTD? It wasn't a big hit which is not surprising because it was too gritty for white audiences who preferred the sugar coated pill of GWCTD? I enjoy GWCTD? for the triple star power of Tracy/Poitier/Hepburn. But its important subject matter can't hide its essential triteness as cinema.

I hope you've seen the superb Get Out currently in theatres. It upends the pablum of GWCTD? hilariously and frighteningly and done from the perspective of an African American rather than a white man.
 
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Robert Crawford

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Sorry, Mr. Crawford but I'm not of the school that gives bad movies a pass because their heart is in the right place. GWCTD? is the kind of movie that made white liberal audiences feel good about themselves (I don't think I've ever met an African American who thought very much of the movie). It's a fairy tale! Who wouldn't want Sidney Poitier as a son in law, he's a doctor, he's educated, he's handsome, he has a prestigious reputation. Would the liberal white family have been so accepting of him if he were a plumber? I think not.

Ground breaking? 3 years earlier there was a film called One Potato Two Potato which won Barbara Barrie the best actress award at the Cannes Film festival. It too dealt with an interracial marriage but it wasn't sugar coated like GWCTD? It wasn't a big hit which is not surprising because it was too gritty for white audiences who preferred the sugar coated pill of GWCTD? I enjoy GWCTD? for the triple star power of Tracy/Poitier/Hepburn. But its important subject matter can't hide its essential triteness as cinema.

I hope you've seen the superb Get Out currently in theatres. It upends the pablum of GWCTD? hilariously and frighteningly and done from the perspective of an African American rather than a white man.
Well, I'm sorry you think Guess Who's Coming to Dinner is a bad movie. You and I have a major disagreement there. Furthermore, you have finally met an African-American who thinks very much of this film. Also, my family and friends did too.

Finally, to compare Get Out, a film from 2017 to a film made 50 years ago is kind of funny considering the society changes since then.
 

Thomas T

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Sometimes a sugar coated pill allows the medicine to go down.

No disagreement there! As Julie Andrews sings, "A spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down" ..... but I appreciate you acknowledge the sugar coating :)
 

cinemiracle

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Sorry, Mr. Crawford but I'm not of the school that gives bad movies a pass because their heart is in the right place. GWCTD? is the kind of movie that made white liberal audiences feel good about themselves (I don't think I've ever met an African American who thought very much of the movie). It's a fairy tale! Who wouldn't want Sidney Poitier as a son in law, he's a doctor, he's educated, he's handsome, he has a prestigious reputation. Would the liberal white family have been so accepting of him if he were a plumber? I think not.

Ground breaking? 3 years earlier there was a film called One Potato Two Potato which won Barbara Barrie the best actress award at the Cannes Film festival. It too dealt with an interracial marriage but it wasn't sugar coated like GWCTD? It wasn't a big hit which is not surprising because it was too gritty for white audiences who preferred the sugar coated pill of GWCTD? I enjoy GWCTD? for the triple star power of Tracy/Poitier/Hepburn. But its important subject matter can't hide its essential triteness as cinema.

I hope you've seen the superb Get Out currently in theatres. It upends the pablum of GWCTD? hilariously and frighteningly and done from the perspective of an African American rather than a white man.

I was bored with GWCTD when I saw it on it's original release. ONE POTATO TWO POTATO was screening where I was working. It was very successful at the box office. I watched it on dvd a couple of years ago and it is still a brilliant film. It is available in the UK.
 

cinemiracle

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I don't dislike Around The World In 80 Days but I stand by my statement that it is far from the best film of 1956. The cameos are fun and Victor Young's score is a treat but it's rather bloated and a little Cantinflas goes a long way and I won't even go into the casting of red haired freckle faced Shirley MacLaine as a Hindu widow (she needs more than dark Egyptian make up to make her convincing). And if you can make a case for 80 Days as superior cinema to other 1956 films as Ford's The Searchers, Siegel's Invasion Of The Body Snatchers, Sirk's Written On The Wind, Kazan's Baby Doll, Hitchcock's Man Who Knew Too Much or even Forbidden Planet, The King And I, The Girl Can't Help It, and The Court Jester. I'm willing to hear it. :)

That being said, if 80 Days ever makes an appearance on blu ray, I'd definitely pick it up.

It is time that THE GIRL CAN'T HELP IT was released on bluray. A brilliant film. Luckily it was screening where I was working. The title song is unforgettable.
 

cinemiracle

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there is one shot from Carousel used in Peyton Place - the boats going into the hearbor are shown when Allyson is talking about summer in Peyton Place.

It was common in those days to use the same scenes in different films. One indoor scene in THE ROBE was also used in HOW TO MARRY A MILLIONAIRE- just the décor was changed.
 

cinemiracle

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True, some of the best films or acting performances weren't even nominated. You look at Robert Mitchum's performance in The Night of the Hunter for example.

The oscars have never meant anything to me.They are purely a marketing thing.Best films rarely mean that they are the best of the year. How many voters actually see the films that they nominate?
 

john a hunter

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To be more precise, I'm sure that the surround track information was taken from the efx pre-mixes.

Given that the 3 mic recording format for the front was used, it is hardly surprising that the forth rear track was later made from separate effects or mixed down from the front.For example,Skouras liked the panning from the front to the surround in the Prince of Players cemetery scene .
Both Zanuck as well as Skouras were pushing for a more aggressive use of this track and there is evidence from contemporary sources as to its use. As theatres would set the surround levels properly with appropriate set up tracks(thank you Stephen), these references should be respected.

So why do most of these effects, which made up to surround,disappear on todays transfers.

Incidentally, the 70 of El Cid panned church bells from the front to the surrounds so its use of the surround was not limited to fanfares. Plus of course the siege tower rumbling over the audience.
 

haineshisway

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Here's what's funny: I LOVED One Potato, Two Potato - went back several times to the Beverly Canon here in LA where it had its run. And, I LOVED Guess Who's Coming to Dinner and the many times I saw it during its original run (at the Village, if memory serves), the audiences were filled with all manner of races, but especially the two the film is concerned with - laughs galore, tears galore, and happy audiences of all persuasions.
 

Stephen PI

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Incidentally, the 70 of El Cid panned church bells from the front to the surrounds so its use of the surround was not limited to fanfares. Plus of course the siege tower rumbling over the audience.

I didn't intend in my remarks about "EL CID" to give the impression that the surround track was limited to fanfares, as you have mentioned. I do recall thunder was added to the surround channel in a night scene in a castle tower. As it was in a 70mm print you saw, I guess we're talking of a different scene.
I saw a 70 print at the National Film Theater in London in the 1970's but of course I cannot remember anything related to the surround track. I am going through the film now to refresh my memory.
When did you see the 70 print? If it was made after 1996 it could have contained the updated soundtrack. Nothing was done to the front channels, only the surround, and an LFE track was added.
This Dolby Digital track was made for the Criterion laserdisc and has been used for all home video versions since.
I believe it is a fairly common occurrence for an updated stereo track to make its way in to a new theatrical re-issue print.
Just for clarification, 70mm and 35mm stereo prints shared the same sound mix which originated as a 4-track (LCRS) the 70 version had added information in the left and right extra derived from the adjacent channels.
 
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