A Few Words About A few words about...™ On the Beach -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[atfree]

I have several FOX Twilight Time titles that I would rate 4.5 to 5. Even the MGM titles from them rank a 4 to 4.5 rating from me.

I agree, The Fox TT titles (The Blue Max, etc) are excellent as well. But I'd would still say the MGM releases, IMO, are more in the 3.5 range. Some of that is attributable to the ones I have (The Mechanic, Rollerball, etc) being very bland films visually IMO.

 

[Randy Korstick]

And since they cost $30.00 instead of $17.00 I find a MGM TT title with a video rating of 4 less acceptable than a Kino MGM title with a video rating of 3. For the $30.00 Laserdisc price I expect a 5 and will be disappointed with anything less than 4.5.

I have several FOX Twilight Time titles that I would rate 4.5 to 5. Even the MGM titles from them rank a 4 to 4.5 rating from me.

 

[atfree]

True but because there are now 200+ channels on TV, discs to rent or buy and all the streaming their choices are endless and when they see something old they just keep on looking for something newer. It was different in the 60's, 70's and 80's because we didn't have all these choices so we gave older movies and TV shows a chance and were able to discover them. The newer generations do not need to give older Movies and TV a chance because they have too many options and prefer newer movies first.

Exactly.....when younger generations are browsing Netflix they are generally looking for newer stuff and stuff they know from peers, media, etc. My kids (4, ages 13, 14, 18, and 21) queues are filled with TV shows, slasher films, super hero stuff, etc.....not a "classic" in view. I firmly believe catalog titles (pre-1970 or 1980) primary appeal to baby boomers and older; there are certainly younger people who are into classic films, but I think they are probably outliers in their peer group.

 

[FoxyMulder]

And since they cost $30.00 instead of $17.00 I find a MGM TT title with a video rating of 4 less acceptable than a Kino MGM title with a video rating of 3. For the $30.00 Laserdisc price I expect a 5 and will be disappointed with anything less than 4.5.

I think ratings don't tell the whole story, your screen size and viewing distance might mean that a 3 to Mr Harris, our resident film restoration expert, would be a 4 to you as just one example, i'm also a little uncomfortable with ratings, many people skip reviews and just go to the end to see the rating and, as i say in my first few lines of the post, it doesn't always tell the whole story.

 

[Jon Hertzberg]

I have several FOX Twilight Time titles that I would rate 4.5 to 5.

I don't have many of the Fox TT titles, but I recall a couple or three getting beat up here and on the usual other sites...DEMETRIUS AND THE GLADIATORS comes to mind.

Good on them for correcting the mistake that was the original 4x3 letterbox DVD of VIOLENT SATURDAY, with their Blu-ray, utilizing the same solid HD transfer Fox provided to Carlotta and MoC.

 

[ROclockCK]

Wow. You've been playing those same sour 2 notes* for nearly 3 years Jon?!? Man, that's some pucker you've got there!

But this thread isn't about that, is it?

* To date, there are over 100 other Blu-rays from Twilight Time with 2/5 or more of them recent 4k-redux jobs from Sony and Fox. But their overall quality speaks for itself...to those who've been listening.

 

[JohnMor]

Yeah, this is supposed to be a "we hate Kino" thread, not TT.

 

[ROclockCK]

Anyway, back to the subject of this thread, I watched KLSC's On the Beach last night...purposely going straight HDMI into my display and using its built-in sound bar...to eliminate any possible effects of outboard amplification on the audio sync.

For many scenes, especially early on, there did not seem to be very much audio mismatch (if any) with the video, although more splice bumps (and even visible splices) than I was expecting...and that aberration seemed to come in clusters. Around the one hour mark, and then off and on during the final stretch, its out-of-sync audio was really noticeable, and very annoying.

Interestingly, when you watch the trailer for OtB, the audio for these scenes is all in sync, so that pretty much eliminated bad post production on the original film as a likely culprit...the dubbing seemed fine throughout, even in the scenes most out-of-sync on this disc. So it *appears* something happened on the way to home video...probably years ago when MGM mastered it for DVD.

So a question for Mr. Harris I guess, "Do you think all of those splice bumps are directly related to this audio sync issue?" This master seemed to be from a patchwork of film/video sources...much of it very clean and otherwise beautifully stable...but then you'd see a splice and it would be right back into mottled and scratched celluloid with varying densities. Could that be the reel culprit here..."all these pieces dropped in from multiple dupe sources to compensate for film damage, losing frames head and tail in the process, while the original soundtrack just played through intact?"

I don't think KLSC did anything bad here, other than deeming OtB acceptable to release in this state. Its worst problems seem to go back much further...to mastering choices MGM made years ago.

 

[Mark-P]

Anyway, back to the subject of this thread, I watched KLSC's On the Beach last night...purposely going straight HDMI into my display and using its built-in sound bar...to eliminate any possible effects of outboard amplification on the audio sync.

For many scenes, especially early on, there did not seem to be very much mismatch (if any) with the video, although more splice bumps (and even visible splices) than I was expecting...and that aberration seemed to come in clusters. Around the one hour mark, and then off and on during the final stretch, its out-of-sync audio was really noticeable, and very annoying.

Interestingly, when you watch the trailer for OtB, the audio for these scenes is all in sync, so that pretty much eliminated bad post production on the original film as a likely culprit...the dubbing seemed fine throughout, even in the scenes most out-of-sync on this disc. So it *appears* something happened on the way to home video...probably years ago when MGM mastered it for DVD.

So a question for Mr. Harris I guess, "Do you think all of those splice bumps are directly related to this audio sync issue?" This master seemed to be from a patchwork of film/video sources...much of it very clean and otherwise beautifully stable...but then you'd see a splice and it would be right back into mottled and scratched celluloid with varying densities. Could that be the reel culprit here..."all these pieces dropped in from multiple dupe sources to compensate for film damage, losing frames lead and tail in the process, while the original soundtrack just played through intact?

I don't think KLSC did anything bad here, other than deeming OtB acceptable to release in this state. It's worst problems seem to go back much further...to mastering choices MGM made years ago.

You've got to remember that the old master (on DVD) was mono and this is the first release with a stereo soundtrack. So I would say that whatever company was hired to do the remix might be the culprit for the sync issues.

 

[FoxyMulder]

You've got to remember that the old master (on DVD) was mono and this is the first release with a stereo soundtrack. So I would say that whatever company was hired to do the remix might be the culprit for the sync issues.

Just one reason of many for always including the original sound mix along with any remixed soundtrack.

 

[Jon Hertzberg]

There's no sourness here, Rock. I own MANY TT titles and I am a fan and have been since their start, and I am genuinely happy when they put out one of my favorite titles, particularly since I'm also an avid film score and soundtrack collector, as I believe you and I have discussed here, or on that other forum. My point was that TT have had a few less than optimal ones come down the pike, slip out, whatever colloquialism you prefer, whether it be from Fox, MGM, or Sony. Just as KL Studio Classics has had in this deal with MGM. And just as Shout / Scream Factory has had over their time in the studio licensing game. As has Criterion...Every one of these companies has released a film where one or many or all of us questioned their decision to do so based on the fact that the transfer was compromised or unsatisfactory in some way--outdated, overly DNR'ed, from lousy elements, not even 16x9, wrong aspect ratio, etc. I will not bring up any more specific titles, but I think if we all jog our memories, these companies all have a MARTY or two to not hang their hats on.

Considering that KL Studio Classics and Mr. Tarzi chose to release their MGM titles fast and furious (over 70 in the licensing deal), to have only a couple or three be overly problematic isn't as bad as some are making it seem here. To quibble over the overall benefit of that release strategy is eminently reasonable, however.

Finally, when it comes to discussing these 2 or 3 less-than-optimal releases, Mr. Lime has, of course, not always helped himself in these matters here, which only adds to the "pile on Kino" mentality.

Wow. You've been playing those same sour 2 notes* for nearly 3 years Jon?!? Man, that's some pucker you've got there!

But this thread isn't about that, is it?

* To date, there are over 100 other Blu-rays from Twilight Time with 2/5 or more of them recent 4k-redux jobs from Sony and Fox. But their overall quality speaks for itself...to those who've been listening.

 

[Jon Hertzberg]

Wow. You've been playing those same sour 2 notes* for nearly 3 years Jon?!? Man, that's some pucker you've got there!

But this thread isn't about that, is it?

* To date, there are over 100 other Blu-rays from Twilight Time with 2/5 or more of them recent 4k-redux jobs from Sony and Fox. But their overall quality speaks for itself...to those who've been listening.

No sourpuss (pucker?) here...you see my avatar, don't you?

 

[JohnMor]

For many scenes, especially early on, there did not seem to be very much mismatch (if any) with the video, although more splice bumps (and even visible splices) than I was expecting...and that aberration seemed to come in clusters. Around the one hour mark, and then off and on during the final stretch, its out-of-sync audio was really noticeable, and very annoying.

This was my experience as well. The worst scenes in my viewing were when Ava Gardner went to Fred Astaire's garage, starting with the banging on the garage door with her shoe, which was clearly out of sync, and then on the submarine when Astaire had his speech about the cause of the war. Both of those were the most out of sync on my viewing. Other scenes were totally fine and a few other moments were slightly out-of-sync. It was very strange in its inconsistency.

 

[Jon Hertzberg]

This was my experience as well. The worst scenes in my viewing were when Ava Gardner went to Fred Astaire's garage, starting with the banging on the garage door with her shoe, which was clearly out of sync, and then on the submarine when Astaire had his speech about the cause of the war. Both of those were the most out of sync on my viewing. Other scenes were totally fine and a few moments were slightly out-of-sync. It was very strange.

John, can you provide some timecodes for those scenes? That would be a big help.

 

[JohnMor]

John, can you provide some timecodes for those scenes? That would be a big help.

Yes, I'll do that this weekend.

 

[Charles Smith]

If Kino made an honest effort in their own testing on the dozen or so machines, I'd sure like to know the specifics, and whether their observations included any of these (forthcoming) problematic time codes.

 

[ROclockCK]

You've got to remember that the old master (on DVD) was mono and this is the first release with a stereo soundtrack. So I would say that whatever company was hired to do the remix might be the culprit for the sync issues.

That seems pretty credible Mark. It certainly wasn't a consistent variance...some scenes were considerably more out of sync than others. One of the worst was Peck's return to Moira on the farm around the half way mark...gawdawful audio sync throughout, especially for such a key scene.

 

[FoxyMulder]

That seems pretty credible Mark. It certainly wasn't a consistent variance...some scenes were considerably more out of sync than others. One of the worst was Peck's return to Moira on the farm around the half way mark...gawdawful audio sync throughout, especially for such a key scene.

If that's the case then i don't think you can cure it by altering the lip sync delay on your AV Receiver or blu ray player, it would just put other scenes out of sync, i see it's now been reviewed by Matt for HTF and he too found sync issues, they can't all be firmware related, it's gotta be a disc issue, perhaps a bad batch of discs since some people say they don't have the issue.

 

[ROclockCK]

Considering that KL Studio Classics and Mr. Tarzi chose to release their MGM titles fast and furious (over 70 in the licensing deal), to have only a couple or three be overly problematic isn't as bad as some are making it seem here. To quibble over the overall benefit of that release strategy is eminently reasonable, however.

Well, KLSC is barely out of the gate with this series, and I'm only 1 for 2. Bruce doesn't seem to be faring any better, likely worse because he took a chance on The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes. Doesn't appear as if RAH is having such a rollicking good time either.

 

[ROclockCK]

If that's the case then i don't think you can cure it by altering the lip sync delay on your AV Receiver or blu ray player, it would just put other scenes out of sync, i see it's now been reviewed by Matt for HTF and he too found sync issues, they can't all be firmware related, it's gotta be a disc issue, perhaps a bad batch of discs since some people say they don't have the issue.

I played this on my barely 7 week old Sony BDP-S6200 rather than my old PS3, specifically checking for firmware updates beforehand Malcolm. Took no chances with firmware being an issue here...