A Few Words About A few words about...™ Mary Poppins -- in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Andrew Budgell]

That's so sad! When The Sound of Music played on the big screen here in the US, I was one of about only about 8 people at an evening screening. But to be fair it had been poorly promoted.

But as to the screening of MP, how was the picture and sound?

I'm not as knowledgeable as many of you, but I thought it looked and sounded great! I believe it was a digital screening. It must have been.

When I saw The Sound of Music back home in Canada it was packed!

 

[Charles Smith]

Every one of these vintage film screenings is poorly promoted. I spit nails when I think about it.

 

[bigshot]

Maybe that's a slight overstatement. What do you think?

All an animator has is a line to tell his story. When you distort that, the hand of the artist is gone. That's why DVNR was so bad in animation. Some people said that it only affected really fast action and gave it a motion blur. But animators put those lines there for a purpose. Changing an animator's lines is like changing an actor's dialogue.

 

[Mark B]

An eleven screen, all digital BowTie Criterion Cinema just opened here, and they have been showing "oldies" on the weekends at 11:00am. The first week was THE BIRDS which I attended with 11 other people, but attendance has steadily increased. HALLOWEEN (1978) screened to 50% capacity. The house was nearly sold out for SOME LIKE IT HOT, BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY'S and AUNTIE MAME.

 

[haineshisway]

All an animator has is a line to tell his story. When you distort that, the hand of the artist is gone. That's why DVNR was so bad in animation. Some people said that it only affected really fast action and gave it a motion blur. But animators put those lines there for a purpose. Changing an animator's lines is like changing an actor's dialogue.

I think the use of the word massacred in regards to the transfer is a bit much, as someone else pointed out. People on some animation forums are up in arms - have they seen the transfer? Have you? I think you would have been posting comparison screen caps if there were any to post, so we could all see this massacre, but the only thing that's been posted here is a frame of 35mm dye transfer film along with a DVD scan, which is pretty much identical. I'm not saying you're right or wrong as I haven't seen the transfer (arriving today) but frankly looking at animation lines in motion is just not something I'd ever do, especially in a film that is mostly live-action. But I'd like to see comparison caps (from this film - not others) just to see how massacred it is.

From everything I've read from various sites that have reviewed it, Disney has done a beautiful job, so to damn them without having seen the disc and based on comments from people who may or may not have seen it and who may or may not know what Mary Poppins' Xerox things look like, seems wrong to me.

 

[bigshot]

Not animation fan forums... Animators are the ones that are upset about the alteration of the xerox lines. Fans probably don't care, but to artists who make a living with their lines, it is a very big deal.

You missed my post where I showed a screen cap from the European release of Mary Poppins and a photograph of a cel that had xerox lines to show the difference.

 

[bigshot]

Robin Hood in particular got a lot of animators I know upset. The same smudged over lines were in that blu-ray too. Disney is infamous for reworking their films. It goes all the way back to the VHS / Laserdisc era. I remember someone asked Frank Thomas what he thought of the colors on the Snow White video. He diplomatically replied, "Very nice. Not the colors we used back in 1937, but nice."

 

[haineshisway]

Well, sorry, I'll have to disagree with you about Mary Poppins specifically - I just finished watching it and it is a glorious transfer straight down the line, animation included. There are no smudged lines that I can see (and yes, I'm ashamed of myself for even looking, but that's what we've come to, I'm afraid), and the animation looks incredible and I have to tell you, almost exactly like the frame of the 35mm IB Tech print in this very thread. Then again, I don't go hunting for this stuff and I don't know enough about it, so I would defer to others who've actually seen the disc and made the comments, but - I haven't actually seen any comments from actual animators who've seen the actual disc and compared it to the actual frames of 35mm IB Tech prints. But all I can tell you is that Mary Poppins on Blu-ray is a sight to behold and practically perfect in every way. Color is stunning, contrast is amazing, and it's so magical that it's like seeing and discovering the film for the first time.

 

[Charles Smith]

Exactly what I look forward to experiencing tomorrow night.

 

[haineshisway]

Not animation fan forums... Animators are the ones that are upset about the alteration of the xerox lines. Fans probably don't care, but to artists who make a living with their lines, it is a very big deal.

You missed my post where I showed a screen cap from the European release of Mary Poppins and a photograph of a cel that had xerox lines to show the difference.

No, I didn't miss it - what I saw was a hugely blown up frame, which I pay no attention to as hugely blown up frames are meaningless to me and have no basis in movie-watching reality And your comparison of 101 Dalmations is also meaningless, since it's not Mary Poppins.

 

[moviebuff75]

Bruce, I highly value your opinion so I can feel at ease about this title (which I did anyway because of RAH's comments, but this seals it for me.)

 

[bigshot]

Well, sorry, I'll have to disagree with you about Mary Poppins specifically - I just finished watching it and it is a glorious transfer straight down the line, animation included.

Have you ever seen what xerox on a 60s Disney cel looks like? It looks like pencil drawings. You can see through the line. It isn't solid. There is sketchiness to it, especially on the animator's key drawings. You can also see underdrawing defining the forms underneath on some frames. Does the film look like that or are the lines solid and black? I haven't seen the blu-ray yet, just the Euro release screen caps. Maybe someone monkeyed with the screen caps. (But I tend to doubt it.)

I have seen Robin Hood (well as much of it as I could stand), and it had altered lines throughout. That made me very wary of other xerox pictures. (Not to mention the gross manipulation of the colors and distorted and missing optical effects in Alice, Peter Pan, Pinocchio and Sleeping Beauty.)

By the way, the xerox process used on 101 Dalmatians was exactly the same as on Mary Poppins. The quality of the xerox line should be the same. My copy is on the way from Amazon. I'll take a look at it and post after I get a chance to look at it.

 

[haineshisway]

Have you ever seen what xerox on a 60s Disney cel looks like? It looks like pencil drawings. You can see through the line. It isn't solid. There is sketchiness to it, especially on the animator's key drawings. You can also see underdrawing defining the forms underneath on some frames. Does the film look like that or are the lines solid and black? I haven't seen the blu-ray yet, just the Euro release screen caps. Maybe someone monkeyed with the screen caps. (But I tend to doubt it.)

I have seen Robin Hood (well as much of it as I could stand), and it had altered lines throughout. That made me very wary of other xerox pictures. (Not to mention the gross manipulation of the colors and distorted and missing optical effects in Alice, Peter Pan, Pinocchio and Sleeping Beauty.)

By the way, the xerox process used on 101 Dalmatians was exactly the same as on Mary Poppins. The quality of the xerox line should be the same. My copy is on the way from Amazon. I'll take a look at it and post after I get a chance to look at it.

Well, I'll be interested to know what you think. Again, this is not an area I'm an expert in and I would never behave like an armchair expert about stuff I don't know all that much about. I don't freeze-frame and examine frames on a Blu-ray and in motion so I can't speak to what you're talking about. There is no gross manipulation of color here - it's perfect. All I can tell you is that this transfer looks incredible to my eye, that the animation is detailed and wonderful and looks very similar to the frame posted here from the IB Tech print - so I'm just a viewer who loves the film, has seen it many, many times in dye transfer prints, and this is just an amazing job in matching that look. And while you may feel what you feel about the animation, it really only comprises about ten minutes of the film.

 

[bigshot]

And while you may feel what you feel about the animation, it really only comprises about ten minutes of the film.

That's why I bought this one and will probably keep it instead of returning it like I did with Robin Hood.

 

[TravisR]

I think this is the first time that there's been complaints about animation on Blu-ray.

 

[Mark-W]

I think this is the first time that there's been complaints about animation on Blu-ray.

Check THE SWORD IN THE STONE thread. That film on Blu was massacred. First Disney animated film I returned for a refund because of PQ issues.

 

[TravisR]

^ Yeah, I know. I'd say that most animated movies recieve complaints from the self-appointed experts. Maybe they're right but when you see it on nearly every release, it's hard to take any of the complaints seriously. The sad part is that when there is a legitimate problem, people are less inclined to pay attention because so many releases are criticized.

 

[classicmovieguy]

There are rumors that Pollyanna is next.

"Pollyanna" was announced almost 2 years ago as coming to Blu-ray along with "The Absent-Minded Professor" and "Son of Flubber" but nothing eventuated - maybe we'll see more classic live action titles now that "Mary Poppins" is out.

 

[bigshot]

^ Yeah, I know. I'd say that most animated movies recieve complaints from the self-appointed experts. Maybe they're right but when you see it on nearly every release, it's hard to take any of the complaints seriously.

Most animated films on blu-ray look great. Warners is doing an excellent job and the recent Betty Boop and Puppetoons disks are the best they've ever looked. The big exception is Disney. The alterations they are making aren't a mistake. They are deliberate. They're changing the color palettes and line quality and over cleaning to make the older films look like the new ones. That's fine if you know and love the new films. But if you grew up with Pinocchio in the theaters, the version on blu-ray is not the same thing.

 

[Oblivion138]

I'm no animation expert by any means, but the lines on the Mary Poppins BD are night-and-day different from the lines on the Robin Hood BD, or any of the other straight animation BD's I've seen from Disney. The "sketchy" xerox lines are still visible to me...it doesn't look like a smooth, consistently dark felt-pen line, as most Disney BD's tend to.

Again, this is the opinion of a viewer, and a film lover, not an animator...but there's a major difference between how the animation was treated here, versus other Disney BD transfers...even I can see that. In motion, it looks perfectly natural to me. And frame-stepping, it is easy to see the fluctuations in line thickness and darkness, and yes, you can see lighter underdrawings in some frames. To me, it looks beautiful. As does the live-action. This is by far the best transfer of any Disney classic to date.